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Thread: Battle Calculations

  1. #1
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    Battle Calculations

    There probably isn't an easy answer here but figured it's worth a shot.

    How do you:

    1. calculate what troops/wall defenses will fight against each other and in what order during a battle.

    2. calculate how many rounds a battle will last.

    3. calculate what the results will be.
    Last edited by Shackles; 02-27-2010 at 03:24 PM.

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    I have a link to a site you might want to check out. Interesting stuff in relation to your question. PM me if you want to see it.

    Ciao

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    ty, the link should be useful once i understand q's 1-3 but it doesn't really explain the mechanics.

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    google 'evony battle calc' and use the first, its not 100% accurate but it gives u a rough idea of how things work.

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    ty, should probably explain i'm looking to understand the gist of how to do this manually if possible.

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    Those are battle mechanics. There are several people very well versed in these on the forums, search for threads. Combat Calculator Redux is a great thread, you can use google to find it.

    And yea, Evo Calc is a great tool for getting a feel for what happens, however it has Many Many problems. I wouldnt trust it at all.

    It has the starting ranges wrong, it has defending archers not move, and several other mistakes which alter the outcome of the battle.
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    Look in the guide forum and read Darkbrady's Key Issues on Combat Mechanics guide. This is still the best explanation of battle mechanics I have seen so far.

    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=63051
    PEACE

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    Thanks again, tremendous suggestions and one's that will likely pay dividends in the future. It makes sense to me that in order to manually calculate the outcome of battles, a player will need to fully understand the basics on how troops will face off vs. each other in different scenarios. There's a lot to grasp in those threads, and i guess for now it makes sense to consolidate the "Movement in Combat" section in order to get to that understanding.

    Based on darkbradys post, Rodri's suggestion, and some other sources, i think this is a starting point to what i was asking. If anyone can clarify, add to what's missing, or correct any errors please do.

    1. The range at which a battle starts is based on the unit w/ the longest range.
    2. Units on the field will move forward before their attack phase of that round unless a specific mechanic (such as stand and shoot) dictates that they stay still.
    3. Speed affects how quickly units move past traps and reach their target.
    4. The amount of range a unit covers in open battle is at a rate equal to its speed per round.
    5. If a unit doesn't get within range during their turn/round, they won't be able to attack.
    6. Tech research acts as a variable for stats like shooting range and moving speed.
    7. Units can only attack one unit type for each turn/round.
    8. Troops will not (with exception) ignore enemies in their path and will stop to attack them when in range.
    9. When 2 or more units are whithin range, the units with the highest combined attack value will be the one's 1st targeted.
    10. Units will attack each turn using range & attack vs. the enemy defense & life.
    11. Heavy casualties in battle can result from attackers reaching large groups of enemies too fast.
    12. Archers stand and shoot when in range of targets, allowin' all non-seige units to run ahead of them.
    13. Movement and enemy speed will also affect the archers' damage based on the distance to their target.

    The deductible is as follows:

    100%~51% range = 50% damage
    1%~50% range = 100% damage (optimum range)
    0% range (melee) = 25% damage The deductible is as follows:

    From Naems after this post.

    Ranged units seem to have the following priority rules:
    1. AT's
    2. Ranged unit with highest attack power
    3. Scouts?
    4. Closest melee unit.
    I believe thats where scouts belong, but remember they dont move forward in battles. They act like transporters, they wont move until everything else is dead. But if you've taken out range setters, they definately take ranged hits before your cavalry will.

    Melee units seem to attack:
    Unit in range with the most attack power.
    Last edited by Shackles; 08-04-2010 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Adding info

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shackles View Post
    Based on darkbradys post, Rodri's suggestion, and some other sources, i think this is a starting point to what i was asking. If anyone can clarify, add to what's missing, or correct any errors please do.

    1. The range at which a battle starts is based on the unit w/ the longest range.
    2. Units on the field will move forward before their attack phase of that round unless a specific mechanic (such as stand and shoot) dictates that they stay still.
    3. Speed affects how quickly units move past traps and reach their target.
    4. The amount of range a unit covers in open battle is at a rate equal to its speed per round.
    5. If a unit doesn't get within range during their turn/round, they won't be able to attack.
    6. Tech research acts as a variable for stats like shooting range and moving speed.
    7. Units can only attack one unit type for each turn/round.
    8. Troops will not (with exception) ignore enemies in their path and will stop to attack them when in range.
    9. When 2 or more units are whithin range, the units with the highest combined attack value will be the one's 1st targeted.
    10. Units will attack each turn using range & attack vs. the enemy defense & life.
    11. Heavy casualties in battle can result from attackers reaching large groups of enemies too fast.
    12. Archers stand and shoot when in range of targets, allowin' all non-seige units to run ahead of them.
    13. Movement and enemy speed will also affect the archers' damage based on the distance to their target.

    The deductible is as follows:

    100%~51% range = 50% damage
    1%~50% range = 100% damage (optimum range)
    0% range (melee) = 25% damage The deductible is as follows:
    You seem to be getting a good grasp of things. There are a few things I'll point out however.

    1. There are been many threads going over the starting range of battles. It seems as though it is decided by the unit with the longest range +200. If there is an abatis for example (range 5000) the starting range seems to be 5200.

    Also, technology levels dont effect the starting range of battles. (Archery wont increase starting range)

    8. Troops will ignore enemies in their path IF there is something else within their range that has more attack power. You do kind of mention that with your "With exception" though.

    You mentioned the archers deductible. However there are also other bonuses.

    Pikemen have 270 attack when fighting Horses.
    Cavalry have 300 attack versus archers, Cataphract 420.
    Swordsmen have 110 attack when fighting Pikemen.
    ^Thanks to Birtles^

    But, as far as i know, nobody has a 100% breakdown of the battle mechanics. I personally learn new stuff every day.


    Oh, and back to your origional question:

    1. calculate what troops/wall defenses will fight against each other and in what order during a battle.

    Ranged units seem to have the following priority rules:
    1. AT's
    2. Ranged unit with highest attack power
    3. Scouts?
    4. Closest melee unit.
    I believe thats where scouts belong, but remember they dont move forward in battles. They act like transporters, they wont move until everything else is dead. But if you've taken out range setters, they definately take ranged hits before your cavalry will.

    Melee units seem to attack:
    Unit in range with the most attack power.

    The other 2 are rather more difficult... :P
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  10. #10
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    Those extra pointers will save a ton of grief and are much appreciated Naems.

    Since manually calculating advanced battle results would probably take forever, all i'm really looking to do is to have a general understanding of parts 2&3 in order to know what to attack/defend with for different scenarios.

    10. Units will attack each turn using range & attack vs. the enemy defense & life.
    This part is incomplete so the next step would be to figure out how small scale combat works each round. The exersize screen and/or the guides should work here hopefully. Again, if anyone can help, please do.

    ---------Added on May 10, 2010---------------------

    Thought i'd go back and add the other findings from my quest as i've done below... Pretty much i think i found the answers i was looking for (or at least i was very, very close) on small scale calculations but i never went any further because while manually calculating things is possible, it just doesn't seem to be practical for several reasons.

    So, i think the idea would be to create an automated calculator program like others have done/tried or to just have a good feel for how the mechanics work.

    -------------------------

    an advance search on "rounds" i found a thread where theone045 posted this.

    each round a troop does what is supposed to do, ie move, then if anything is it its range it attacks. each unit then moves foreward until (it) can attack, each movement/attack is 1 round.
    To keep things simple, I ran an exercise test of the following:

    10,000 attacking warriors vs. 1,000 defending warriors.

    I thought that using just warriors would help to simplify the calculations since their attributes are even numbers. Range, speed, and techs could also be ignored since just one type of unit. The exercise results are as follows.

    Attackers win in the 1st round losing 237 warriors.

    Since it only went one round and both sides lost troops, it'd make sense that each side gets a shot at attacking before their life/defense attributes come into play. When you reverse the troop count (1k attacking 10k) the numbers are mirrored.
    There's plenty of questions left unanswered whe the attributes of the battle are added up as a group.

    10k warriors = Defense 50k, Attack 50k, Life 2mil

    1k warriors = Defense 5k, Attack 5k, Life 200k

    I would guess that it needs to be looked at on an individual basis which complicates things to say the least for those of us who aren't mathematicians... LoL ~ Now to advanced search for (a) "life" before taking that next step.

    The adv. search for the meaning of Evony life brought up the following which does seem quite important ~ props to Birtles...

    "A defence of 1000 reduces damage by 100% so the AT's defence of 360 reduces damage by 36%... ranged troops always kill at least one enemy e.g. 10k archers can kill 10k ATs if you send them in one troop at a time."
    Good stuff, but i'm still drawing a part of the picture so i'll keep looking.

    from matt the great

    "Life is the amount of damage a troop can take before it's dead. Defense is the rate at which that troop is damaged".
    Sooooo, a warriors' 50 defense points means that their damage is reduced by 5% or put another way, a warrior is damaged
    at 95%. *eyes glaze over, feels much further from an answer*

    From Birtles

    Damage reduction can't be increased beyond 50% - 500 defence

    Formulae

    Attackers' damage

    B/100(H + T + 100)N


    B base attack, H hero attack, T Military Training (percentage), N number of attackers

    Defence

    1 - (((I + T + 100)/100)D)/1000)

    I intelligence, T Iron Working (percentage), D base defence

    Life

    L x 1.T

    L base life, T Medicine (percentage)

    Effective Life

    L/D

    L Life (as derived from above formula), D Defence (ditto)

    Casualties

    A/E

    A Attackers' Damage (as derived from above formula), E Effective Life (ditto)

    -------------------------------

    From Aach plugging in Birtles' formula


    Plugging your results into the formula for the high int vs no hero case
    Attackers' damage

    B/100(H + T + 100)N

    B base attack, H hero attack, T Military Training (percentage), N number of attackers
    We get into the linear maths issue here but I think what you're getting at is better expressed as: (B*N*(100+T +N))/100.
    For
    B = 250; H = 0; T = 45; N= 100
    Attacker's damage = 36,250

    Defence

    1 - (((I + T + 100)/100)D)/1000)

    I intelligence, T Iron Working (percentage), D base defence
    For
    I =138; T=50; D=150
    1 - (((138 + 50 + 100)/100)*150)/1000

    Defence = 0.568

    Life

    L x 1.T

    L base life, T Medicine (percentage)

    L=300; T=50
    Life = 450

    Effective Life

    Life/Defence

    Life (as derived from above formula),Defence (ditto)

    Life=450; Defence=0.568
    Effective life= 792.3

    Casualties

    Attacker's Damage/Effective Life

    Attackers' Damage (as derived from above formula),Effective Life (ditto)

    Attacker's damage = 36250; Effective Life=792
    36250/792

    Casualties = 45.77

    But fractions are dropped when working out casualties in melee so 45 it is (which fits with the observed result).
    Last edited by Shackles; 05-10-2010 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Belated follow up results, thread closed so i couldn't add to it.

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