A Note on Freedom of Speech

[powerwolf]

Evony does not have to abide by all the laws of every country of the world. We are a US company, our game and forums are on US servers, and we abide by US laws. The US laws are very clear that we are entitled to restrict access to our private property, and to regulate what occurs on said private property.

It is EXACTLY the same as if you entered a supermarket and began shouting racist epithets, anti-supermarket propaganda, or holding a witch-burning in aisle 4. They have the right to tell you that you may not do that on their premises, and to ask you to leave. Should you fail to abide by their requests, they can kick you out and tell you not to come back. Should you fail to leave, they can have the police remove you. Should you come back anyways, they can then have you arrested for trespassing. While we do not go so far in most cases as to contact law enforcement, we can and will protect the integrity of our domain.

Visiting a forum is not a purchase transaction involving taxes, so your analogy is flawed. And if your country or locality thinks that our website is in discord with their statutes, they are welcome to block your access to our site. We, however, are under no obligation to bow to the laws of Upper-Northeast Borinslavia's Chamber of Commerce, or any other jurisdiction we do not reside in.

dont matter to me i dont have a roblem with what goes on unless it just happens takes a day or two to calm down so i stay away..

and true you dont have to abid by all laws in every country but were i come from nearly all laws are the same as in the us

[japanpimp]

The relevant words here are Congress shall make no law...

This means that everything which follows does not apply to Evony or any private website. We're not congress. We're not the government. The first amendment does not give you the right to say whatever you want here.

100% right. And as a private entity you would be foolish NOT to control what people say. Things that may harm your image, business, etc...

That said, we're a fun and exciting group of people to hang with and we'd love for you to join in on the discussion. We have a great community who is very smart, helpful, friendly and witty and they'd love for you to join them, so please dive right in!

Well, I'll just say that most forums I've ever known has been moderated by people with ego problems and chips on their shoulders. And that does not make for a fun and exciting place to post. So you guys need to relax a bit and let people be people. So long as what people post does not taint Evony or make this forum experience a bad one for others then you guys need to let it go. Some mods on here let their emotions and feelings towards others get in the way of making sound decisions. Others are heavy handed, iron fisted if you will. You guys need to encourage your mods AND REPRESENTATIVES be more like sports refs, unbiased towards orhers as much as possible. There IS a human factor here that one must apply.

If there was a natural disaster and we were all neighbors, I am sure that Mod or Evony Representative B who does not like forum member C would be the first to help, and vice versa. So if in real life they would be willing to help each other in a time of need, then there is no reason they cannot reflect that human factor in their role as a Mod or Evony Rep.

It's like some irritating children running around. You want to wring their little necks. But then you think, "Gosh, my kids do it too... so I should be patient and exhibit mildness. Then you think, wait those ARE my kids!!!!"

[Wildor]

It's like some irritating children running around. You want to wring their little necks. But then you think, "Gosh, my kids do it too... so I should be patient and exhibit mildness. Then you think, wait those ARE my kids!!!!"

No.



Your post makes some good points. And I'll be the first to admit I've been far from perfect in moderating this forum. I've taken this place to heart and made a lot of friends here. I have also created a lot of enmity, both towards myself and the site. That comes from being involved and active. An interventionist style I have adopted early. For I have always seen moderating as a responsibility to the community as a whole, however imperfectly one can judge and act upon such a premise.

But the responsibility doesn't end with us members of the staff.

Any community requires some restraint and regards towards other's needs and prerogatives from it's members. Belonging to a community, any community, requires a degree of responsibility towards said community from all it's members.

And we do not wish for a community of irresponsible children.

That is not to say this is the case with this one. "Au contraire". Far more often than not, this community will act in a respectful and responsible fashion. That is something we are daily reminded of and are thankful for. And I have personally seen this place move towards a better, more stable and convivial place in it's one year existence. I am very grateful for it.

But there is still room for improvement.

On the side of this site's directors and moderators, certainly. We are all conscious of that and strive to do better for the community, always.

But also, members need to keep in mind that some responsibility rest on their shoulders too. Indeed, we staff members and moderators can do only so much. The very nature of this community is, in very large part, the responsibility of it's members.

[japanpimp]

No.



Your post makes some good points. And I'll be the first to admit I've been far from perfect in moderating this forum. I've taken this place to heart and made a lot of friends here. I have also created a lot of enmity, both towards myself and the site. That comes from being involved and active. An interventionist style I have adopted early. For I have always seen moderating as a responsibility to the community as a whole, however imperfectly one can judge and act upon such a premise.

But the responsibility doesn't end with us members of the staff.

Any community requires some restraint and regards towards other's needs and prerogatives from it's members. Belonging to a community, any community, requires a degree of responsibility towards said community from all it's members.

And we do not wish for a community of irresponsible children.

That is not to say this is the case with this one. "Au contraire". Far more often than not, this community will act in a respectful and responsible fashion. That is something we are daily reminded of and are thankful for. And I have personally seen this place move towards a better, more stable and convivial place in it's one year existence. I am very grateful for it.

But there is still room for improvement.

On the side of this site's directors and moderators, certainly. We are all conscious of that and strive to do better for the community, always.

But also, members need to keep in mind that some responsibility rest on their shoulders too. Indeed, we staff members and moderators can do only so much. The very nature of this community is, in very large part, the responsibility of it's members.

Well said. I have nothing further to add your honor...

[Aegless.OG]

A simple axiom might help; If you cannot or will not abide by the simple rules of Evony that allow for the quality entertainment of all, do not let the door hit ya where the Good Lord split ya.

Happy Hunting

[abracax]

To me the whole point of Freedom of Speech is moot. Those who are U.S. citizens should know by now what Freedom of Speech covers, it does not allow for obscenities, false statements, slander, or libelous statements. It also allows owners of any private property that people are using to limit their speech or place conditions on their speech in order to use their private property. This would include a church, someones house, a business and so forth, i.e. non-governmental entities.

The freedom we have in the U.S. is the freedom to criticize our government or any government entity without retribution by our government.

For those who are not U.S. citizens but want to argue freedom of speech, I can almost guarantee that your country of origin does not give the same level of free speech that the U.S. gives. So for anyone to try and invoke "Freedom of Speech" as they try to insult, spew obscenities, make false statements, slander or make libelous statements is completely ridiculous. If you are a U.S. citizen, please learn the laws you are trying to use before you use them. It is my opinion that anyone residing in the U.S. should understand these laws and use them to their fullest intent granted to them by our constitution. I do not agree with people in a fit of rage or out of spitefulness saying whatever they feel and then trying to invoke Freedom of Speech.

[Gnerphk]

While I agree with BrentL in principle, there is a practical prespective that ought to be taken into account.

For a court to rule on this issue, it would be necessary for someone to sue Evony. Now, while anyone could do that, it ought to be remembered that this would require an appearance in an actual courtroom. This carries with it a danger: that of the judge, whose duties include imposing punishments on people who troll in RL.

There is one other aspect, to wit: This is a voluntary service provided by the management of Evony; they could cease providing it at any time. There's a Terms Of Use document that provides them with vast powers, one of which is the moderation of the forum. Finally, there's the aspect of professional standards, recognized by most courts as the only available measure of the appropriate use of power and choice in any industry.

In short, only a flagrant abuse of power by the management of Evony is likely to draw any sort of adverse attention from any court or lawmaking body, and even then the power of such to limit or control these forums would be limited.

At least, we can hope they would be.

[AbstractAngel]

Can I just add that I am Canadian?

My point is that it's not just American's that make this place their home/community. I have no problems with freedom of speech and everything, but abracax is right in saying there are certain things that are not tolerated. Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms is slightly different as well; however. So the way I think may be different then you.

If you are on my property slandering me, that is against the law in Canada. If you are on your own property slandering me, I have the right to leave or stick up for myself (without slandering you back), but I do not have the right to call the cops on you. It's your house, your rules. So when Evony states "this is our house, these are our rules" I don't tend to blink at it.

Not that this discussion is anything more than moot, as this is a private forum and even in America that means their rules, their judgement. If they don't want you on their lawn, they have the right to remove you.

And who wants to be all negative and rude all the time anyways? If you don't like the game or the people, why are you here? And if you do and just want things to change, swearing and insulting people and stamping around like a four year old will not get you anywhere. This lesson we all have learned at a mighty young age I would hope.

[Anaerion]

I agree completely forums should be moderated and whoever said or implied that they can say whatever they like due to freedom of speech is not really worth responding to. I would like to add however that although Evony has the right to moderate their forums as they see fit, thats exactly what they do and it can be extremely frustrating. First mod reads a post, agrees and laughs... Second mod reads post and hands out an infraction. Now I wont go as far as to say certain moderators do what they like, lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say they interpret the forum rules differently, whatever the reasoning the outcome is the same. There is ahuge difference between moderating a forum and policing it, unfortunately on occasion Evony have most definitely fallen in to the latter category and you can't blame ppl for being annoyed with it. There is a difference between ppl being having a heated discussion and ppl breaking forum rules and that is what some moderators fail to see, at least thats my opinion, feel free to disagree and i'll happily post several examples.

[Boleslav]

First mod reads a post, agrees and laughs... Second mod reads post and hands out an infraction.

Almost certainly not so. You'll have noticed that moderators have assigned forums. In those forums assigned to us, we have more powers. So let's say that an Evony-flaming thread appears in a server forum and TC or ASMO spots it. The best they can do is try to calm people down. When Ghost and I come online, we have more options.

Now I wont go as far as to say certain moderators do what they like, lets give them the benefit of the doubt and say they interpret the forum rules differently, whatever the reasoning the outcome is the same.

Well, I'm delighted that you didn't go that far because making public accusations against the moderators is one of those no-no things that people tend to get into trouble for. It's far better to report a moderating violation to FoxyBunny or Dawnseeker in a private message.

There is a huge difference between moderating a forum and policing it, unfortunately on occasion Evony have most definitely fallen in to the latter category and you can't blame ppl for being annoyed with it.

I totally disagree with this statement because it assumes that Evony doesn't have the right to set limits on acceptable and unacceptable conduct on the forums.

There is a difference between ppl being having a heated discussion and ppl breaking forum rules and that is what some moderators fail to see, at least thats my opinion, feel free to disagree and i'll happily post several examples.

I handled "PR" on the forums for my alliance back in Wn1, in a forum without any assigned moderator at that time, and I had to deal with muscular attacks on my alliance from other forum members. That, I believe, is totally fine. This is a wargame, and we do invite people to talk about diplomacy and conflicts. Now, where it gets problematic is when members get abused or accused of cheating. Then it becomes an issue for the moderator to deal with. It's not about how heated the discussion may be, it's about what's cooking in the thread.

If you have killer examples of moderator misdeeds up your sleeves, ready to produce on demand, I'd suggest taking them to Dawnseeker and FoxyBunny in a PM. Be aware though that as a forum member you are not privy to all the information that guides moderator actions. There may be deleted posts, spam, accusations, deleted threads, insults which you never even knew were connected to the incident.