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Thread: 1 Solution to the massive armies that evony didnt foresee

  1. Default 1 Solution to the massive armies that evony didnt foresee

    EDIT: This is meant for age1
    EDIT: Keep in mind I dont wish for these things to be implimented, only suggesting things for when they change the game.

    Ok i'd like to start off by saying i searched around and didnt quite find an idea like this so if im just repeating what others have suggested im sorry.

    The Developers of Evony never meant for people to build such massive armies and are trying to figure out what they are going to do about it, so i just want them to consider my ideas.

    1st We need a variable food cost for building troops (im using archers in my examples)
    -The more troops you have of a certain unit the more food it costs to build each one.
    -Maybe 0-50k cost the base amount of food (300) each
    -Maybe 50001-100k cost 600 each
    -Maybe 100001-150k cost 1200 each
    -Maybe 150001-200k cost 2400 each
    -You can see how it migh get very expensive, to build even a lower class unit such as archers, very quickly
    -So between the higher food price of troops as your armies grow and the upkeep for them you will have a much harder time making the rediculous amounts of troops that people are currently doing.

    2nd We need to completely throw out the honor system. Link the heal rate directly to your troop #s rather than honor.
    -Lets say you have a total of 100k troops or less, you still get your 50% heal rate.
    -Lets say you have 100001-200k troops, you now have a 40% heal rate
    -By the time you have 500k troops+ you only get a 10% heal rate
    -This may keep people from wanting such large armies, b/c you wont be able to send a couple warrior bombs to rid your honor for your big cav or mech attack.

    3rd You now have 10 slots for holding your valleys per city, we need to add another tab where you can have built npcs per cities.
    -If you have a lvl 1 th you can build 1 npc with that city (if the npc is capped then you can build another)
    -If you have a lvl 10 th you can build 10 npcs with that city
    -If you abandon the city you have made npcs with, all those npcs you build get turned back into flats to prevent people from making many lvl 9 ths and 9 nps then abandon for 1 more npc.
    -this will not only help prevent the players who dedicate there lives to farming from farming, but will also help the servers from being swamped with npcs in the later part of the servers.



    If all three of these ideas are implimented i think this would solve many of the issues Evony has with how the game has turned out to be, as well as quite a few of player complaints.

    Pls post you thoughts on my ideas
    Last edited by SkylineR34VSpec; 09-04-2010 at 03:31 PM.
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  2. #2

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    The 1st one is an okay idea, but I doubt it will be implemented into the game.

    The 2nd idea is complicated, it is simple enough, but is it troops per city, troops total or what?

    The 3rd idea is not so great either, NPC's are built when you abandon a city, let's keep it that way.
    Ram - Catapult + Ram/Cataphract x Calvary -((-Archer) Cataphract) + Warrior^2 x Pikemen^3 - Worker(Swordmen)/Transporter + Ballista((-Scout)(Cataphract - Calvary^2)Archer) - Cataphract^7 = Horsebow.
    [omkitshuy]: anyone worth recruiting is a person worth farming
    http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?...32#post1391632

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylineR34VSpec View Post
    Ok i'd like to start off by saying i searched around and didnt quite find an idea like this so if im just repeating what others have suggested im sorry.

    The Developers of Evony never meant for people to build such massive armies and are trying to figure out what they are going to do about it, so i just want them to consider my ideas.

    1st We need a variable food cost for building troops (im using archers in my examples)
    -The more troops you have of a certain unit the more food it costs to build each one.
    -Maybe 0-50k cost the base amount of food (300) each
    -Maybe 50001-100k cost 600 each
    -Maybe 100001-150k cost 1200 each
    -Maybe 150001-200k cost 2400 each
    -You can see how it migh get very expensive, to build even a lower class unit such as archers, very quickly
    -So between the higher food price of troops as your armies grow and the upkeep for them you will have a much harder time making the rediculous amounts of troops that people are currently doing.

    2nd We need to completely throw out the honor system. Link the heal rate directly to your troop #s rather than honor.
    -Lets say you have a total of 100k troops or less, you still get your 50% heal rate.
    -Lets say you have 100001-200k troops, you now have a 40% heal rate
    -By the time you have 500k troops+ you only get a 10% heal rate
    -This may keep people from wanting such large armies, b/c you wont be able to send a couple warrior bombs to rid your honor for your big cav or mech attack.

    3rd You now have 10 slots for holding your valleys per city, we need to add another tab where you can have built npcs per cities.
    -If you have a lvl 1 th you can build 1 npc with that city (if the npc is capped then you can build another)
    -If you have a lvl 10 th you can build 10 npcs with that city
    -If you abandon the city you have made npcs with, all those npcs you build get turned back into flats to prevent people from making many lvl 9 ths and 9 nps then abandon for 1 more npc.
    -this will not only help prevent the players who dedicate there lives to farming from farming, but will also help the servers from being swamped with npcs in the later part of the servers.



    If all three of these ideas are implimented i think this would solve many of the issues Evony has with how the game has turned out to be, as well as quite a few of player complaints.

    Pls post you thoughts on my ideas

    I'm a little confused about #1. Number 2, i LOVE it. It would make having honor worth it, rather than having no way of ACTUALLY judging whether or not someone may be powerful, or simply full of ****. Honor shows that you fight and kill troops, giving a sign of veterans, and also just active fighters, but no one wants it because of the heal rate. Number three however, i have a different thought that some people may like. How about NOT being able to build ANY Npc's. Evony sweeps all the servers, allows some Npc's (maybe like 100 per server, scattered through the states. Not 100 per state, per server) and people just deal with it. Being able to build ten npc's per city (which would happen when you got to TH 10.) would be pointless, because you can still farm just as much as you need with 100 tens. People can cap Npc's, but when that npc is capped, another is created somewhere else in the map, maintaining 100 (like 10 of each level NPC) Npc's would end up as a rarity in these ways, GREATLY lowering our troop counts. When you click abandon city, it turns into a flat. Of course people are now going to ask what we do with these extra flats everywhere since we cannot build npc's. Well, in that case you could either use my outpost idea, which is in this threadhttp://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=144582 , or some other idea that people think up. It would lower the army count indefinitely, unlike all this stuff about lowering troops upkeep, which just causes us to double our armies and farm the same ammount, thus causing everyone else to so they can survive. However, something would need to be done so we could support enough troops to take out defenses (as in higher farm production), because AT's are way to strong to kill with only what our current farms can keep up with, and we wouldn't really be able to buy food as less people would be selling it because there are no NPC's to farm it from. See how this would help? It would lower our troop counts, demand strategy instead of brute force, and allow more players per server, causing larger and more high-scale wars, which in turn will keep the payers paying.
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  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylineR34VSpec View Post
    Pls post you thoughts on my ideas
    The difficulty in any of this is it then caters exclusively to those who spend money.

    $30 gets you Vesta's Blessing. There are people who spend thousands of dollars. Why, I have no idea, but the fact remains that those high-roller spenders exist.

    $3000 gives you 100 days of 50% food consumption. Partnered up with someone and you have 200 days, or over 6 months.

    This means that to compete against those spenders, I'd have to invest more and more time farming so as to be able to maintain a large defensive army.

    Now toss in the removing of NPCs (Age I), which is being done unevenly and unfairly (not everyone gets hit all at the same time), which allows the spenders the ability to port in right on top of someone and blast away at them.

    Sorry, no "fixing" or other alterations of the gameplay should be made to existing servers, either Age I or Age II. If they want to introduce new changes, introduce them to new servers.

    Finally, there is a real solution to this "not what we intended" problem:

    Define what actually is intended.
    Design to meet that definition.
    Test to ensure that the design meets the definition.
    Rework and retest until the product meets the definition.

  5. #5
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    #1: All right, so long as it was troop count TOTAL in ALL cities.
    #2: LOVE IT! Honor would be worth having, and honor is the only that accurately provides ranking of whether or not the person knows how to play or fights alot.
    #3: It's not really worth doing, because it would still lead to farming. 100 L10's per person (that has 10 micks and time)? No way, everyone would just end up farming everyone else's NPC's.

    #4: My own idea. Remove NPC's (ALL except for 100 per SERVER), and make "Abandon City" button turn cities back to flats. That way it stays at one hundred. When someone caps an NPC, another of that level is automatically created on a flat (whether it's owned by a player or not, if it is a person's flat, sucks for them. They just lost a flat), so that it stays at 100 npc's, 10 of each level. Npc's would become a rarity this way, making people more likely to attack and cap one, and also leaving more flats open for more players, causing larger, more high-scale wars that keep the payer's paying.

    #5: Another of my own ideas. Make Vesta's do something else. (i.e. add a building slot to a city or something cool like that.) The way it is now simply FUELS the huge troop counts, causing high payers to have double the troops over everyone else, because he can sustain them. Like a 2-for-1 thing almost, it makes you able to have double the troops.

    #6: OK, my last idea here! What do we do with all the empty flats leftover from not having thousands of npc's? This : http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=144582

    Thanks for reading my whole post lol.

    DK
    Last edited by DeadKnight; 08-27-2010 at 05:47 PM.
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  6. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neko_lord View Post
    The difficulty in any of this is it then caters exclusively to those who spend money.

    $30 gets you Vesta's Blessing. There are people who spend thousands of dollars. Why, I have no idea, but the fact remains that those high-roller spenders exist.

    $3000 gives you 100 days of 50% food consumption. Partnered up with someone and you have 200 days, or over 6 months.

    This means that to compete against those spenders, I'd have to invest more and more time farming so as to be able to maintain a large defensive army.

    Now toss in the removing of NPCs (Age I), which is being done unevenly and unfairly (not everyone gets hit all at the same time), which allows the spenders the ability to port in right on top of someone and blast away at them.

    Sorry, no "fixing" or other alterations of the gameplay should be made to existing servers, either Age I or Age II. If they want to introduce new changes, introduce them to new servers.

    Finally, there is a real solution to this "not what we intended" problem:

    Define what actually is intended.
    Design to meet that definition.
    Test to ensure that the design meets the definition.
    Rework and retest until the product meets the definition.
    50% less food consuption wont help NEAR as much if all of these were made part of the game, and you dont need "large defencive army" you can defend with much smaller #s than attackers. But yes they need to open a test server for any ideas that they want to make to fine tune them and see if they are worth the effort
    Quote Originally Posted by [PyV] View Post
    The 2nd idea is complicated, it is simple enough, but is it troops per city, troops total or what?

    The 3rd idea is not so great either, NPC's are built when you abandon a city, let's keep it that way.
    in my opinion it should be total troops for the heal rate, not per city, it would be too easy to move all troops except what your attacking with to get a 50% heal.

    but if you dont limit the # of npcs a player is able to farm then you will still have the players that dedicate their lives to farming and will still have the much bigger armies. i dont like the idea of wiping all npcs you built that day a SM like in age2 this way your npcs are there every day, but you wont have 40 per city to farm to support those big armies and not to metion all the kluter of said npcs


    compared to what they have done already, like the removal of random npcs that seems to hit some player hard one day and others not at all, are these ideas not a much more fair/stable change to the game
    Last edited by SkylineR34VSpec; 08-27-2010 at 06:15 PM.
    I have yet to see a burn out that rivals the Skyline
    Heres a video of a bad burnout

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB2qsj4Tzm0

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylineR34VSpec View Post
    50% less food consuption wont help NEAR as much if all of these were made part of the game
    How so? The spenders will have a 50% reduction, which they already have, but then those that don't have the reduction will incur the penalties without the offsetting reduction. What you're proprosing ends up to be nothing more than a regressive tax, where the people least able to pay the tax get hit hardest.

    and you dont need "large defencive army" you can defend with much smaller #s than attackers.
    Against one single attack, perhaps. However, when one of these monster cities ports in right on top of you and fires off 20 scout bombs, 5 full archer waves with rainbow, and then finishes you off with cavalry, my guess is you'll be singing a different tune.

    That's what your alliance is for, you might say?

    An alliance can't rebuild walls. The player that has been attacked has to do it. The alliance can supply resources, but a wall cannot be "team built".

    An alliance also may not be able to react in time if the attacker is up close and personal or if there are multiple people involved in attacking you and they've timed attacks to land within the same minute, providing no warning to the alliance at all if you are offline.

    Again, all of these changes simply cater to those that spend, whether that is your intention or not. They ultimately make it harder for smaller players to defend themselves.

    compared to what they have done already, like the removal of random npcs that seems to hit some player hard one day and others not at all, are these ideas not a much more fair/stable change to the game
    The game was fine as it was. If they "didn't intend" things, then they should be more proactive about using what I outlined about defining the intentions, designing to those specs, testing, and reworking. This process is called "Iterative and Incremental Development", and that is how many thousands of real live companies do software development.



    Finally, if they want to change things, then they should change things on newer servers. Making drastic changes to existing players without warning a year+ after the game was released is at best unprofessional...
    Last edited by neko_lord; 08-27-2010 at 06:58 PM.

  8. Default

    Quote Originally Posted by neko_lord View Post
    How so? The spenders will have a 50% reduction, which they already have, but then those that don't have the reduction will incur the penalties without the offsetting reduction. What you're proprosing ends up to be nothing more than a regressive tax, where the people least able to pay the tax get hit hardest.
    if the "spenders" as you call them have larger armies than everyone else they may get a 50% reduced upkeep, but they still have to deal with the massive amounts of food it will cost to train them ontop of only getting a 10% heal rate

    Quote Originally Posted by neko_lord View Post
    Against one single attack, perhaps. However, when one of these monster cities ports in right on top of you and fires off 20 scout bombs, 5 full archer waves with rainbow, and then finishes you off with cavalry, my guess is you'll be singing a different tune.
    the whole point of this is to keep people from having "monster cities" i think these things can work to prevent that from happening while still being fair and reasonable.

    Quote Originally Posted by neko_lord View Post
    Again, all of these changes simply cater to those that spend, whether that is your intention or not. They ultimately make it harder for smaller players to defend themselves.
    these ideas will limit the advantage big spenders have over someone who doesnt spend, but this is not about big spenders its about massive army sizes and how to reduce them in a fair way. the only advantage a spender will have over a non spender with my ideas is they can get mich scripts faster and have higher th lvls for more npcs, and also a 50% upkeep, but like i said that only helps so much and will not be near as big of an advantage as it is now.

    Quote Originally Posted by neko_lord View Post
    The game was fine as it was. If they "didn't intend" things, then they should be more proactive about using what I outlined about defining the intentions, designing to those specs, testing, and reworking. This process is called "Iterative and Incremental Development", and that is how many thousands of real live companies do software development.
    i also agree with this, i like things the way they were, but they will change something so instead of sitting on my but i am trying to help them find a good way to fix it
    Quote Originally Posted by neko_lord View Post
    Finally, if they want to change things, then they should change things on newer servers. Making drastic changes to existing players without warning a year+ after the game was released is at best unprofessional...
    yes, like i said in a previous post, they need to come out with a test server for ANY ideas they might want to try
    I have yet to see a burn out that rivals the Skyline
    Heres a video of a bad burnout

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  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylineR34VSpec View Post
    if the "spenders" as you call them have larger armies than everyone else they may get a 50% reduced upkeep, but they still have to deal with the massive amounts of food it will cost to train them ontop of only getting a 10% heal rate
    Due to how they will now encounter reduced amounts of troops opposing them, the lowered heal rate becomes meaningless. This means that they also cannot effectively be attacked, so you just basically hand the server over to coiners.

    the whole point of this is to keep people from having "monster cities" i think these things can work to prevent that from happening while still being fair and reasonable.
    One of my most despised comments in regards the the tax system here in the United States is the constant whine by Liberal Democrats about how "The Rich" need to "pay their fair share". Problem is, nobody ever gives a concrete definition of what constitutes a "fair share".

    You don't seem to realize that your changes will cause further shifts in balance away from those who cannot afford to spend or spend a little to those who spend a lot, much like how Liberal Democrats fail to understand that almost all workers have their paychecks signed by someone that makes more money than they do, and if you attempt to take money away from the person signing the checks, fewer checks get signed...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SkylineR34VSpec View Post
    Ok i'd like to start off by saying i searched around and didnt quite find an idea like this so if im just repeating what others have suggested im sorry.

    The Developers of Evony never meant for people to build such massive armies and are trying to figure out what they are going to do about it, so i just want them to consider my ideas.

    1st We need a variable food cost for building troops (im using archers in my examples)
    -The more troops you have of a certain unit the more food it costs to build each one.
    -Maybe 0-50k cost the base amount of food (300) each
    -Maybe 50001-100k cost 600 each
    -Maybe 100001-150k cost 1200 each
    -Maybe 150001-200k cost 2400 each
    -You can see how it migh get very expensive, to build even a lower class unit such as archers, very quickly
    -So between the higher food price of troops as your armies grow and the upkeep for them you will have a much harder time making the rediculous amounts of troops that people are currently doing.

    2nd We need to completely throw out the honor system. Link the heal rate directly to your troop #s rather than honor.
    -Lets say you have a total of 100k troops or less, you still get your 50% heal rate.
    -Lets say you have 100001-200k troops, you now have a 40% heal rate
    -By the time you have 500k troops+ you only get a 10% heal rate
    -This may keep people from wanting such large armies, b/c you wont be able to send a couple warrior bombs to rid your honor for your big cav or mech attack.

    3rd You now have 10 slots for holding your valleys per city, we need to add another tab where you can have built npcs per cities.
    -If you have a lvl 1 th you can build 1 npc with that city (if the npc is capped then you can build another)
    -If you have a lvl 10 th you can build 10 npcs with that city
    -If you abandon the city you have made npcs with, all those npcs you build get turned back into flats to prevent people from making many lvl 9 ths and 9 nps then abandon for 1 more npc.
    -this will not only help prevent the players who dedicate there lives to farming from farming, but will also help the servers from being swamped with npcs in the later part of the servers.



    If all three of these ideas are implimented i think this would solve many of the issues Evony has with how the game has turned out to be, as well as quite a few of player complaints.

    Pls post you thoughts on my ideas

    just a stab in the dark, but im sorta guessing that as yu have came up with this idea, maybe yu dont have such a big army? or yu probs got wiped out or maybe yu cant play a great deal?

    for those with time/money and such they farm more = more troops.

    tbh those ideas seem daft, who would wanna play when more than 500k troops ya get 10% heal rate, alot of people worked for there armies, just seems yu dont actually have one. thus your posting of this 'idea'

    dont fix what isnt broken, real life war's were won mainly by numbers, or the weapons used.
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