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Thread: Contemplation about Evony

  1. #1

    Default Contemplation about Evony

    Contemplation about Evony

    NB : Do not skim through this, you'll be utterly misinformed by the time you get to the end if you do.

    I believe that it is human nature for people to do their best at everything that they do. You may respond to this by saying "that's not true, what if they just want to get something over with so they use minimal effort". That's actually quite plausible and I can see your point. I believe that we can all agree that there is quite a bit of ambiguity in the word best. If we look at a dictionary definition of the word best we can see that connotation of the word is to mean of the highest quality. As you can see, the beauty of small words with subjective emphasis is that beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. That said, quality depends on what you define as quality. For the purposes of this "piece" I will say that quality is "to meet the requirements of any given situation while accurately engaging according to the operational parameters" (now try to say that 5 times fast); in addition, we will say that the definition of best is 'of the highest quality'. Now, to those of us who require a much more practical explanation, it means that if I have an assignment and my definition of best is that I can finish it and with minimal resources, then regardless of how speculator the assignment may or not be, all that matters is that I still have a lot of time left over for me to determine that my assignment was the best.

    Now that we've got the formalities out of the way, time for the real meat of what I want to say. I believe that it is human nature for people to do their best at everything that they do. I recently started playing evony again against the better judgement of my better half and I noticed that while teaching people, they would tell me they weren't a noob.

    Noob is another one of those interesting words with no real measurable line can be drawn to say you are a noob and you aren't a noob. Regardless, we all know that a lot of people don't want to be a noob; however, I think that people require a boarder perspective when dealing with whether they themselves are noobs.
    Based on my definition of the word best and my opening statement we can assume that everyone tries their best to play Evony. That means that if a noob has the same definition of success that a 'pro' has then they would do their best get there. If they are doing something badly, they do not know that they are doing it badly and as a result a real noob cannot know that they are a noob. Now, we also need to take into consideration that we don't know what a noob is, let's for argument sake just assume that a noob is just someone who isn't very good at the game by the standards of you, the reader.

    This causes a really complicated problem. All noobs think that they're sufficiently good at the game by their own standards, and that includes the circumstances under which they've playing, when in fact this is not actually the case. There is always room for improvement which means no matter what circumstances or limitations that you have, you can always be better. Until you understand that, you're actually a noob.

    The problem may seem very simplistic but if you are a professional carpenter, then if someone who is a novice carpenter telling correcting you may provoke your arrogance. In fact, we might as well change 'may' to the word 'probably'.

    "You don't know carpentry, I've been a carpenter for 7 years's" a statement that I wouldn't be surprised to hear in such a situation. Before listening to the reason, because you believe that the way you are doing something is the best (mainly because you don't know of a better way). Now you've committed a fallacy, a crime against logic, the evil that makes our world so corrupt - the Ad Hominem.

    If you don't get the point, I'll attempt to make my point clear. Go to a friend who hasn't read this. Ask them:
    1) What is 1 + 1?
    2) What is 5-5?
    3) What is 2 * 2?
    4) What is 5/1?
    5) What is 5%1?

    There is an extremely high probably that after the second question, they will get incredibly annoyed and they won't answer your questions. The reason is because these people figure that this is common knowledge and obviously they know that information. At the very least it would be incredibly strange should they not question your reasoning for asking them these questions. Now imagine that you need to ask someone who you may not know the evony equivalents. They will think that you're asking them if they're stupid. They may not take you seriously, they may not respond, they may be complete jerk offs to you.

    Due to that behaviour a lot of noobs can get very far in the game. Unbelievable, arrogance gets you pretty damn far without you actually needing to know anything. There is a saying that its better to open your mouth, ask a question and remain a fool for 5 minutes than it is to keep your mouth closed and remain a fool forever.

    I've noticed that in relation to this trend the number of good evony players is shrinking, or more correctly the evony community is suffering from polarization. We have a group of players who is open minded and can get past what I call the critical apex, and a group of players who lag behind and are really the most pathetic people in evony. Many of the good players are sticking together and many of the bad players just... suck. They can't reach the point where they are skilled enough to join the 'good players' and as a result they fall off the bandwagon. What happens is that the same players are progressing throughout the game. Always dominating against the small weaker groups who require large sums of money to catch up and who lack the same level of skill. There are exceptions, but let's face it.

    For reference, the critical apex is the part in a players experience where they no longer need to be spoon fed information, they go on the forums, can reason out things, understand how to layer properly and test combat theories and are capable of even writing guides.

    Now when you think about this, that's a really scary reality, at least for me. We don't have a very friendly in-game environment. So my question to you is do you agree this is a problem and if so how do you propose that it is fixed or do you think it can't be fixed at all' If not, why do you think that this is not a problem?
    Actually, the above mentioned was a tangent was kind of aside from the point I was trying to get out, so if you felt that the above was actually a complete essay that doesn't require this additional monologue it probably was and I'm sorry for getting your hopes up but I need to finish.I really believe that the above mentioned information, particularly about how our arrogance can prevent us from learning, warrants a change in the mentality of players. There are many people, who I feel that this does not really apply to, and perhaps, the only people who read this are the people who probably don't need a lecture like this (and the people who're just masochists, but that requires an entirely different contemplation with a completely different thread lol).

    In addition, I think that we as players need to be more conscience of the people who lead us and be more understanding to the systems that they implement. At the end of the day, regardless of what a system is the system is to ensure something. Every alliance must have a goal, if not there's a high probability it won't be going anywhere anytime soon. If those players don't have something that is common between them and treat the game as a social event, I really think (this is not politically correct) that they need to stop playing the game because they're flooding the evony database and causing a ton of lag for those of us who do play to win or at least play for more than talking sake, but I am not going to say that cause that's mean. Now this could be a slippery slope fallacy, but is it really unreasonable? I've seen so many alliances where hosts implement a 3 day inactivity rule and actually adhere to it and people say it's just a game. Firstly, a game is just a game. A game with monetary investment involved is completely different story. People need to understand that and understand that without motivation and people who share their sentiments they will never go anywhere.

    Conversely, leaders need to really think of methods to overcome these problems, the problems of polarization, how to find information from people, how to keep group moral up, and how to filter out people who don't share the same values regardless of how potentially strong that they are.
    Finally, I can say that I honestly don't know the answer. I'd really like to hear other people's opinions on the behaviours I mentioned, the belief that alliances require goals, that we require a mentality change in more players to have more competitive and lively servers to really push evony into an age where we no longer argue over the facts of the game, but we can focus more on the applications where people can talk together on equal footing and discuss real controversial issues about best practice.
    </rant>
    Last edited by Aelphaeis; 11-06-2011 at 05:30 PM.

    Whether To fight until there is no one left
    Or
    To die fighting by someone stronger
    That is not for me to decide
    However I will fight you until one of us ceases to exist.

  2. #2
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    having just read that i've decided its too late in the evening for me to make a sensible comment so i shall read again tomorrow and re-access

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelphaeis View Post
    Lots o' long perdy words for fancy folks.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priest Vito Cornelius View Post
    It's a - it's a - it's a - it's a - it's a - it's a...
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Ruby Rhod View Post
    No no no no no no. 'Cuz if it was a bomb, the alarms would go off 'cuz all these hotels have bomb detectors, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotel View Post
    [Alarms sound]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crushking33 View Post
    That made me giggle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aelphaeis View Post
    Contemplation about Evony
    If you don't get the point, I'll attempt to make my point clear. Go to a friend who hasn't read this. Ask them:
    1) What is 1 + 1?
    2) What is 5-5?
    3) What is 2 * 2?
    4) What is 5/1?
    5) What is 5%1?
    That is 5 mod 1, which is zero. Good day sir

  6. #6
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    Aelphaeis,

    Your arguments seem rather objective, but I'm interested in your response to the social turmoil that occurs as a result of developmental differences between players. Very often player groups with similar mindsets, skill sets, and alliance-wide goals fail due to social issues as opposed to game-related issues. What sort of hierarchy do you place on player compatibilities?

    ^^Look Ma, Voulkos' first siggy done outside of MS Paint!!

  7. #7

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    It's a lengthy read but I agree with you that the Evony forum crowd is generally lacking in terms of technical skills. Just look at the battle reports section for example, reading the posts/recommendations/praises, you can say that a large number of players are still not substantially informed to the battle aspect of the game. Much worse can be generally expected to the players who don't frequent the forum. But that's how they want to run their lives. In my alliance alone, there are still those who will try to show off their combos that once in a while I have to make an obligatory response of 'nice hit' so I wouldn't hurt their feelings.

  8. #8

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    I'd need way too many bong hits to even read that much.

  9. #9
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    You should read my shortened version of Aelphaeis post TentPig.

    Quote Originally Posted by Priest Vito Cornelius View Post
    It's a - it's a - it's a - it's a - it's a - it's a...
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Ruby Rhod View Post
    No no no no no no. 'Cuz if it was a bomb, the alarms would go off 'cuz all these hotels have bomb detectors, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hotel View Post
    [Alarms sound]

  10. #10

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    Didn't read all the posts but the first, and i was shocked when i came back after quitting over a year ago at how little the playerbase had actually changed. Joining late on the newest server i only within the past two weeks made it into an alliance i wanted to be in, and the two previous i made it to presbyter/vh just because the general lack of knowledge even though i'm rusty myself. The noobs who 'know' everything seem to weed themselves out and move on to the next new server every other month or so, thinking and complaining like it's what every one else does and botters, coiners, etc. prevent a server from growing (not true).

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