What kind of planet do we really want?

[Sickness]

"We" can not decide what world we want because 1. People don't know what they want or need, and 2. Even if people did know what they wanted, they are as a whole too stupid to go about getting it. Democracy does not work when the voters are uninformed. We live in the age of information, you can know literally everything about anything, yet people still choose to be uneducated on the problems and proposed solutions of the world. Just look at American politics. People stil think Obama is a Nigerian communist muslim for christ's sake.

A key problem with democracy, and I've said this for years, is the hopeful leader has to cater to a group of people who are too stupid to know what is good for them. They have to do what the public wants or else they don't get their job back. Sounds good, that was the plan with democracy. It's actually working as intended. It's just that people are stupid. The founding fathers did not forsee this problem. They didn't think, whilst our money was on fire and our country was slowing sliding into civil unrest, the voter base would be worried about stupid sh1t like whether or not George Tecai offended someone, or what is sliding into Kim Kardashian's ass today.

People say, even with all of those flaws, democracy is still the best way to do it, I wholy disagree. Monarchies didn't "work" (I'd argue that they did work, the world did almost nothing but improve under monarchal(?) governments. But history is a different discussion entirely) in the past because of the severe gap in power, both financially and militarily, between the working class and the ruling class. If the working class was wronged they could do nothing to fix it.

I think today, in our age of information and technology, that gap in power would be lessoned, almost equalized. Our modern weapons along with sheer population would almost ensure it is impossible for a ruling class to screw us over. (Ignoring Russia)

You say well, why not just revolt now? If that's the solution, then it should work no matter the government type right? Not necessarily. I think the fact that we ARE a democracy in America leaves people with hope where none really should exist. They think "Ya, this current guy is a d-bag, but in 4 years MY guy will get in there and fix everything", but that's purely delusional. The next guy never really "fixes" anything, and the cycle just continues.

Knowing that there won't be a "next guy" removes that hope and forces the people to act.

I'm not sure how other western governments work, but I would imagine the problems in any democratic society are just about the same, because people are pretty much the same.

It's Monarchical by the way. And i'd have to agree that Democracy just isn't working in America right now and hasn't been for a good while. Monarchies tend to flourish since a Monarchs kingdom is his personal property, Giving the Monarch a reason to actually give a shit . For example a king will tend to avoid unprofitable or particularly destructive wars in order to maximize his wealth. Where as wars in Democracies throughout history have shown to lean towards Total War, to where the entire population is affected by it, be it through taxes or whatever. Democracies lead to a lot of problems, Like the lack of accountability of members of a Democracy. Taxation during the democratic era has increased from like 5% to 40%. The disadvantages of a democracy are endless and I could probably go on all day, But historically Monarchies have been proven to work better, Look at England for example they've been around since the 10th Century, The US has been around for 230 something years and they are already having massive issues.

[MasterTdog]

What was that movie were that guy worked for Bill Clinton and wanted change because the difference between the to and bottom of a company is HUGE.....Equal what???? Great Documentary. He is 100% correct!

[ElDiavolo]

Democracy will never work because 'demos' isn't ruling sh1t. Scottish people wanted to leave GB, and they were headed that way, until media started persuading old folks they would lose their pensions if they don't vote against it. It's just too easy to manipulate the crowd, nobody really cares enough to start using their heads, the world is stagnant cos as never before. No more new ideas anywhere. Having a brain today is dangerous in many peoples' books, you can lose your job or worse... They're all just pleased with their boring and simple lives. Not knowing is a blessing I guess...

[Phidaux]

hmmm,

seems many of the countries that are ruled by a Monarchy have a higher tax burden on their people, are involved with just as many issue's with corruption and scandel, and offer fewer freedoms (or rights) to the citizens.

the wealth gap regardless of how your country is governed is extreme.

And most of the top ranked countries in the world (those with Best quality of life, GDP, lowest poverty, etc.
) have some sort of Democatic government.
Norway, Netherlands , USA, Canada, Switzerland, Finland, etc.

in fact most of the top developed country's in the world have some sort of Democracy. Yes some still have a Monarchy, however those Monarchy's are for show and do little other then suck more money out of it's citizens for zero benifit IMO UK is a prime example!.

in Fact i contend for someone to list a single Absolute Monarchy that you would rather model your country after?
Because with the exception of the Vatican, all of the Absoulte Moarchy countries left in the world are in the middle east where the poverty split, lack of rights, and over all quailty of life is not something i would like to model my government after.

Sometimes it is better to say nothing at all then to remove all doubt of your stupidity.

[Wildor]

That last phrase is unfortunate Phidaux, though I agree with your overall point.

[Phidaux]

Was not directed at anyone in particular, just a general statement!

as an added tid bit of info for all to digest, the country ranked with the highest quality of life is Switzerland for 2015. And Switzerland is the only true direct Democracy in the world!

However even the Swiss have their issue's!

Basicly before you all go bashing something it may help to research it, i know that should be simple being you no longer need to go to a library, own a set of encyclopedia's, or go scroll through years of microfiche to find any info out on a subject. Just Google it!

[ElDiavolo]

Was not directed at anyone in particular, just a general statement!

as an added tid bit of info for all to digest, the country ranked with the highest quality of life is Switzerland for 2015. And Switzerland is the only true direct Democracy in the world!

However even the Swiss have their issue's!

Basicly before you all go bashing something it may help to research it, i know that should be simple being you no longer need to go to a library, own a set of encyclopedia's, or go scroll through years of microfiche to find any info out on a subject. Just Google it!

Switzerland? Check what their economy thrives on. Just the opposite of democracy. No monarchies ever worked? Read some history books about the Middle ages, just not the ones Roman's wrote. You will see that Romans didn't build the first roads, half of Northern Europe was basically covered in roads (and they didn't all lead to one place). First genocides were conducted by democratic countries (eg. Rome in what is now known as Romania). Now, I'm not saying monarchies are good, but I'm sure today's democracy is sh1t lol. Having a bunch of people with insatiable hunger for profit and unlimited power, buying countries and installing their governments for total control, is never a good thing. Which brings me back to Switzerland, country ruled by banks and offshore companies... Yup, number 1 country in the world for the financial elite.

[Wildor]

Alright guys...


Obviously, a lot of people feel the same as some of you. In fact, the science of anthropology lists only two human constants throughout history in all forms of human societies, to wit the notion of hierarchy and the taboo of incest. So it's not surprising that monarchy still is a powerful magnet in times of confusion and violence. I feel, however, that monarchy is better left to the past.

Let me point something out...

The proclamation of universal human rights came into being precisely to prevent gross abuse of individuals by all powerful states, be they totalitarian, communist dictatorships or indeed any other dictatorship, including monarchial. That wasn't a step backward in history you know... It is vitally important that individuals have inalienable rights vis-a-vis the state. It is indeed one of the foundations of our western society and I would never want to see it go.

But there, right there, is part of the problem in my opinion.


We have been assiduous in promulgating, promoting and (sometimes though not always everywhere) enforcing human rights. All well and good.

We never, so far, promulgated an accompanying set of human responsibilities.


It is my firm opinion that with inalienable rights come inescapable responsibilities. And somebody, somewhere had better start sitting down and thinking about this. Not that I believe such a thing could be, or even should be, enforced. But certainly promulgated and proclaimed.

Hell we could have a go at it in here, among ourselves, just to see where it can go.

What do you guys think?

[cushseth]

We never, so far, promulgated an accompanying set of human responsibilities.

It is my firm opinion that with inalienable rights come inescapable responsibilities. And somebody, somewhere had better start sitting down and thinking about this. Not that I believe such a thing could be, or even should be, enforced. But certainly promulgated and proclaimed.

This is why democracy does not work. Not because we have yet to set up those rules, but because there would be almost no point even if we did.

It can be fixed in theory, sure. But as you said, when coupled with the basic human rights that we all have, any rules set in place to ensure the people carry out their responsibilities to the greater good would be almost impossible to enforce. At least, that's what I understood you to mean.

The main problem is misinformation and an uneducated public. It is very easy to trick people into doing what benefits you and not them, so long as they don't really know what is happening. But you can not FORCE people to be educated. As I stated previously, we already have the means to have an educated public, they've just decided not to take advantage of that. I really think that is the only thing stopping democracy from being what it should be.

Corruption and scandal can not be avoided, but it's impact is far greater, maybe exponentially so (not sure how that could be quantified, if at all) when the public does nothing about it. There needs to be some sort of system where the leaders actually have a reason to give a **** about those beneath them beyond simply being producers of tax revenue.

[Phidaux]

The Global elite rule the world, not the governments. And history has proven time and time again that when the people revolt against the Elite, even if they win it is short lived as the Elite will find a way to get back in control. Hence that is why they are the Elite! they have the drive and desire to remain in control.

I find it funny that some think it's about education. it's not about education because globally people are more educated that at any other point in history. So if we are better educated then ever before, and we are better informed then ever before, what really is the issue?


The mean IQ has risen 30 points in the last 100 years or so

the global life span has more than doubled in the past 100 years

global median income is just $1,225 a year, which means that if you earn at least 34k a year you're part of the global 1% elite!

the majority of the Democratic countrys in the world are the ones that make up the bulk of the Global elite!

Today's society is way too caught up in instant gratification, they want it all now and they want it perfect. Life is far from perfect, and while striving to approach it is wise, expecting it is foolish.

Do you really think if people that enjoy watching Hunney boo boo ,the kardashian's, or Geordie Shore style shows will all of a sudden become Mensa canidates if they attend more schooling? Do you want people making choices for you when they are not even able to understand that putting an explosive on their head will kill them? Do you want people that think they will obtain 70 virgins after they blow up a bus full of people in charge of what you can and can't do?

Democracy while flawed allows for people to voice their opions, and if the majority voice the same one than they have the power to enact change. It also allows for the crazy people of the world to not enforce their will upon others. I have yet to see anyone offer a suggestion on why anything other than a democracy would be better.

and as far as Switzerland goes, it's just an example, don't get bent out of shape! And although i have never even visited the country they do have one of the best economies in the world, some of the lowest unemployment, highest mean wages, highest average wealth per person, some of the best social programs for it's citizens, lowest amount of people at or below poverty lvl, and it is the only country in the world that runs a true democracy where everything, and i mean everything can be challanged by any citizen before it becomes a law.


so in answer to the original post, what kind of planet do i want? one where the swiss are in charge of setting it up because it seems they know what they are doing!