Radicalisation of politics in America.

[Wildor]

'... in my opinion, a crisis is certain to occur when enough of the population decides the state exist to their detriment, and to the benefit of the very few...

When that point is reached, we may be privy to scenes unthinkable not longer than twenty years ago.'




I wrote that in 2009 in this forum (this thread in archives:http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?...ury&highlight=) Well...


What I didn't clearly see back then, and should have, was how the cleavage between the left and right would become so much more pronounced. And intolerable of one another to the point making their co-existance in American society a lot more of a problem than ever before. That pains me a great deal.

I wish Nathan was around this place still. I'd like to know what his take on all this is. As well as any of you...

[MegaMandthe2nd]

I can't make sense of any of what you just said. Nathan?? is that dawnseeker? if so I wouldn't be interested in his opinion on the matter. He couldn't even fix a game. and refused to listen to me when I gave him the answer to fix the game.

[Wildor]

I can't make sense of any of what you just said. Nathan?? is that dawnseeker? if so I wouldn't be interested in his opinion on the matter. He couldn't even fix a game. and refused to listen to me when I gave him the answer to fix the game.

Yes, I mean Dawnseeker. A bright guy with a keen interest in politics,as were many others here.

I am very sorry you have so much trouble reading but don't despair. Lots of free help and patient teachers are available to overcome this handicap. I wish you well.

[King Alboin]

Hey Wildor,

I had thought discussing politics was an occasion for infraction. In fact I, myself have been served an infraction for discussing politics on this forum.

That being said, I will take part in your debate.

You will have to look to those whom started the divide, your "cleavage". I would use the word "cleft", but no one is counting coup, here.

Politics is about power. Power garnered through legislative and judicial policies. Policy makers love the power they have and are reluctant to give that power up. In their reluctance, these policy makers forget the needs of their constituents, becoming narcissistic and agoraphobic. Narcissistic in the sense that they think they (the policy maker) are the only important person in their little pond. Agoraphobic in the sense that they (the policy maker) has a fear of stepping outside the protective bubble of staffers, lobbyists and lawyers, all the while being incestuous with media types. Those media types, i.e. journalists, news anchors, late night comedians, etc.., are supposed to be the gate-keepers, yet have instead become a well oiled, progressively built propaganda machine exclusively for one side of the equation only.

The media then becomes the scissor jack that spreads your "cleavage" farther apart. Truly, arrogant condescension, false reporting, manipulation of the facts, the use of negative or abrasive adjectives, out of context sound bites and down right insults no longer work in a world now full of social media with alternate news sources. Those one-sided media types loose their credibility, and because of their bias as a consequence they loose their influence that they held over their readers/viewers who are the forgotten constituents of the policy maker who desires to stay in power. The incestuous relationship that has been sold to the policy maker breaks down, because it is hard if not impossible to maintain a lie for influential purposes for very long.

When a news agency reports biased emotions instead of the un-biased facts, they are trying to set up a fairy tale way of accomplishing solutions. Emotions are fluid, changing with the tide, as it were. Logic flies out the door in lieu of attempting to 'policy' wise, make one feel good. Emotions differ with every individual on the planet. Yet if you can divide people into identities, based on some faux emotion semi-commonly held by a group identity, then you can try to pit one identity group a'gin another. The old sage said it best, when he said, "United we stand, divided we fall."

Identity journalism is the culprit here, Sir Wildor. It denies the commonality of humanity in all of us, in exchange for a block emotion. Identity journalism tries it's best to divide the whole for some deep well agenda only they and the sold out politician are privy to.

An old example of this incestuous influential partnership between the two comes from the [in]famous quote by William Randolph Hearst, when he said, "You furnish the pictures and I'll furnish the war.", circa 1897.

[acer5200]

'... in my opinion, a crisis is certain to occur when enough of the population decides the state exist to their detriment, and to the benefit of the very few...

When that point is reached, we may be privy to scenes unthinkable not longer than twenty years ago.'

I wrote that in 2009 in this forum (this thread in archives:http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?...ury&highlight=) Well...

What I didn't clearly see back then, and should have, was how the cleavage between the left and right would become so much more pronounced. And intolerable of one another to the point making their co-existance in American society a lot more of a problem than ever before. That pains me a great deal.

I wish Nathan was around this place still. I'd like to know what his take on all this is. As well as any of you...

I wish I could agree with you that this was "unforseeable" but honestly, it's been on the books since the 80's, when Ronnie Raygun was president. The schism between the right and left started forming around that time, each side continually bickering and vilifying each other, regardless of what was true and what worked. Rather than work together to achieve a goal and the betterment of the people, everyone would rather go "but THEY want it so we have to do the opposite!" all whilst foaming at the mouth.

I can't make sense of any of what you just said. Nathan?? is that dawnseeker? if so I wouldn't be interested in his opinion on the matter. He couldn't even fix a game. and refused to listen to me when I gave him the answer to fix the game.

I wasn't aware Dawn was in charge of programming or "fixing" the game when he was still working for Evony. Last I checked, he was the community manager, or social media manager in today's terms. But it's cool bro, keep your head in your ass and bring up bullshit that doesn't even apply to the topic.

Yes, I mean Dawnseeker. A bright guy with a keen interest in politics,as were many others here.

I am very sorry you have so much trouble reading but don't despair. Lots of free help and patient teachers are available to overcome this handicap. I wish you well.

Yea, I think you took the words from me. But fuck it, I'll say it anyways.

Hey Wildor,

I had thought discussing politics was an occasion for infraction. In fact I, myself have been served an infraction for discussing politics on this forum.

I'll be honest, I doubt anyone cares anymore. lol

[Wildor]

Interesting points King, as always.


I very much agree the mainstream media totally lost it's objectivity in recent decades. You should have seen how things were up here in Canada last year when we had our general election! Good god...

What drives me to almost despair is that, in the long run, north america may very well go the way of a hierarchic sociaist society. I see features of it already in place. A mediatic politico-cultural 'elite' telling people what to think, how to behave, what to consume, how to judge, how to vote... Indeed, a sort of "Brave New World" with more and more people happy to have it that way. Complete with our own forms of soma in canabis being legalized and cocaine circulating freely, to name just those two.

Al these pioneers of Huxley's nightmare vision coming to pass will probably succeed with the help of the crippling economic situation that prevails which very much promotes, in people's mind at any rate, the sociaist agenda. The more I think about it, the more I feel this is probably the last great gasp of the american right. You think the left will let this guy win again?... Or any other candidate openly rightist?... They take to streets as I'm writing this. And have since the election. Oh no... they won't have it any other way than their own.


I feel very low.

[Wildor]

Acer my man, I said I should have foreseen it, not that it couldn't be foreseen. In fact, better men than me probably did. And you're probably right about the Reagan era being a catalyst.

[Montros]

So when did this place become so serious?

Well, Japan is pretty much freaking out about Trump at the moment. I can tell you that much. Mostly about the whole anti-globalization movement in general.

Also, long time no see.

[Wildor]

Can I talk about something that never gets talked about? And in doing so I will include Canada and the USA in one larger denomination: north america.

While everyone talks about the decline and shrinking of the middle class in north america, and blame for it is assigned to all and sundry, and everyone and his uncle has a 'plan' to 'redress' the situation, what never gets mentioned is the fact that the creation of such a large middle class was a historical anomaly, the consequence of a huge event.

The second world war. And the complete victory of the Allies.

After the end of hostilities, what part of Europe that wasn't in ruins (that includes most of western Soviet Union) was simply bankrupt. The same holds true for Asia, though to be sure solely Japan had been far in front of industrialization in that area. The point is that north america had been spared. Indeed, it had developed it's industrial capacity even more during the war years. With the result that, at a certain point, more than a third of all the goods and services provided worldwide was north american.

With the gradual ressurgence of europe and asia (with the indispensable help of the Marshall Plan) providing for a growing international market, in addition to it's own internal market, north america experienced a period of prosperity the likes of which had NEVER before been seen in history. So while north america before the war had been a rather traditional society in regard to the pyramid of distribution of wealth, with a small percentage on top, a somewhat larger section of upper and middle class in the middle, and a very much larger lower and downright poor class at the bottom, the post war years saw the emergence the very large middle class we have, it seems, come to consider as 'normal' today in consequence of facing very little competition worldwide. I am saying nothing new here.

The problem is, in my view, that we just refuse to consider the size of the post war middle class as an anomaly, and blame it's gradual downsizing on politicians, 'unfair' competition, some conspiracy of the rich and powerful, or a supposed inescapable decline of western civilization... Bullcrap!!!

I am certainly no fan of president Obama, but blaming him and the democrats for the plight of the Rust Belt is idiocy. Likewise, believing president Trump, of whom I am also not a fan, has a realistic plan to somehow revive the area is ludicrous. We are simply slowly returning to the norm. Indeed, I am convinced that since the seventies, government deficit spending has helped to artificially keep the north american middle class far larger than worldwide economic reality warranted.


Now, the above is not to say I am not conscious of the fact that the economy is in mutation. I indeed believe it is constantly changing, never static. Sometime change is fast, sometimes it is slow. However, I have not ever seen any indication the new economy would create social pyramids markedly different from the traditional form. Such a warping of said pyramid only has happened as the result of a cataclysm in a large part of the world, another part taking advantage of extraordinary circumstances.

[King Alboin]

A lot said there, Sir Wildor.

Allow me to reference the crux of your post for now.

The problem is, in my view, that we just refuse to consider the size of the post war middle class as an anomaly, and blame it's gradual downsizing on politicians, 'unfair' competition, some conspiracy of the rich and powerful, or a supposed inescapable decline of western civilization... Bullcrap!!!

Hold on a tad, there, sir. I acknowledge your assumption that the 50's prosperity was an anomaly. I disagree that it was a false anomaly, however.

I agree that it was not just Obama that brought us to disaster, yet it was him that tried to nailed the coffin shut. Symbolism over substance. Ephemeral causes did he champion. Splitting the whole into dangerous divisions. Destroying industry as his Executive Powers ink pen rolled over paper portending a monarchial stance.

Symbolism over substance. Reality never entered into this man's politics. Symbolism over substance. He viewed himself the sole crowned visage standing on a Papier Mâché stage. Still does, and sadly he is in deep denial of the ruin he wrought on this great Nation. Shall I enumerate the factions present that spew their vitriol upon the populous? Extoling lies and murderings, trans-mutating them into virtues for a false cause?

When government becomes the substitute for the husband, the husband is no longer needed. The husband must be done away with. AND that is just one reason the prosperity of the 50's died.

Symbolism over substance. It took almost 80 years, and they almost succeeded.

There is a great read from Plato and his Republic.

May I direct you to book X, if you are so inclined.

An excerpt....

This consideration, then, makes it right for us to proceed to lay hold of him and set him down as the counterpart of the painter, for he resembles him in that his creations are inferior in respect of reality, and the fact that his appeal is to the inferior part of the soul and not to the best part is another point of resemblance. And so we may at last say that we should be justified in not admitting him into a well-ordered state, because he stimulates and fosters this element in the soul, and by strengthening it tends to destroy the rational part, just as when in a state one puts bad men in power and turns the city over to them and ruins the better sort. Precisely in the same manner we shall say that the mimetic poet sets up in each individual should a vicious constitution by fashioning phantoms far removed from reality, and by currying favor with the senseless element that cannot distinguish the greater from the less, but calls the same thing now one, not the other.
Plato's Republic Book X: 605, b-c.

Symbolism over substance is a phantom, a mimic, a foul breeze.