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  • A

    91 72.22%
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    52 41.27%
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Thread: Brainstorming - Supporting Large Armies

  1. #451

    Arrow u need ideas

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    When Evony was conceived, it was intended that large armies would not be able to be sustained. Players would be able to have armies based on their food production and armies over that would be lost either in battle or through Refuge.

    The maximum troop levels were not imposed as hard caps, but rather as soft caps. We wanted players to be able to temporarily buff up troops, and then either use them or lose them.

    Players found that by farming NPCs, they could not only sustain much higher troop levels than we intended, but they could do so indefinitely. This was compounded when they began spawn NPC cities specifically for farming.

    While we did not intend for players to be able to sustain armies of the size they are now, we are not necessarily against it. However, there are two things that need to change from the way they are now.

    First, we need to end players ability to make NPC cities wherever they like. This leads to giant clusters of barbarians around many player cities and makes the game map cluttered and unusable.

    Second, we need to find a way for players to maintain armies larger than their food supplies can support, without having to spawn NPC cities. There also needs to be a scaling system for troops, so that it gets more difficult to provide upkeep as you get more troops. It should be an active system of support. It could be farming NPCs or something else. This system must not have any work-arounds or exploits or it will be a pointless change.

    We'd like player ideas on ways to support large armies without the ability to make NPC cities and without relying on giant clusters of NPC cities.

    We're all ears!
    i have one
    a player must be allowed to build 40 npcs for all his cities
    one more idea if some one plays daily then he must get 100 game cents as a monthly gift
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    the game is boring now

    love it HMK

  2. #452
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    46

    Default

    You could set the map up so that each player can take a flat and turn it into an npc but the npc is only connected to them and only they can farm it. make it a limit of 10 npcs per city so that it doesnt get over crowded. If they teleport or are taken over then the npcs turn back into flats.basically they are extenable farms. People would be able to farm the maximum of 100 lvl 10s per day farmed with ease. You could possibly also make it so more lvls are able to be farmed without losses.

    (\_/) ^_^
    (='.'=)
    (")_(") Da BuNNeH!!! LoL
    GO TACTICAL ADVANTAGE!!!!! YAAAAA!!!!! Rofl
    VH of NEM5UNI @ Server 41

  3. #453

    Default Balance and Tribute

    First, I think Evony needs a major overhaul on the balancing of army creation. Currently, there is a lot of massing, archers are a great example. This makes absolutely no sense. For instance, An army of 80K + archers should be easily wiped out by a balanced army. There is a reason that such tactics were not used in the real world. Archers can be dispatched easily by cavalry. Or should be. Cavalry moves too quickly to make the archers effective. Once the cavalry is on the archers the archers are nearly useless. They would be firing arrows on themselves...

    Systems that would create balancing of armies would go a long way to controlling army size. Soon it would be necessary to create heavy cav or risk annihilation. One such system would be introducing new tactics like counter offensives. See my earlier thread: http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=93477

    By controlling army size, players would have to balance their army when attacking heavily defended cities. Mechanics would become much more necessary. Certainly, no large city was ever taken in the real world with an army that consisted of only archers.

    Second, you could consider introducing tribute as a game system. In this system, a conquered NPC city might have to provide tribute to the conquering warlord. Depending on the number of tributing cities, the warlord could then have a steady supply of incoming resources to support larger armies. The warlord would also then have to defend NPC cities it holds from other players to keep the resources. A NPC that pays tribute to a warlord could also have a loyalty factor. A tributing NPC would not count against the number of cities owned by the player. However, occasionally the player warlord should have to reassert the dominant relationship by attacking again (perhaps a steady drop in loyalty). This prevents too many tributing cities thereby providing some balance as well.

  4. #454

    Default

    What is A and what is 1?

  5. #455

    Default

    I found this a nice addition, don't know if it has been suggested on this particular thread yet. (Sorry, 46 pages is a bit too much for me to read)

    Gold upkeeps. By lowering the food upkeep and creating it a gold upkeep it does a few things.
    First, NPC do not carry a lot of gold. A L10 NPC gives 19 million food but only 1.5 million gold.
    Second, this makes currency the fulcrum of Evony, something that is also more historically correct.

    This allows people to continue large armies but puts a limit on such an army that cannot be solved through NPC farming. As time goes on, the amount of excess gold in the server is spent, and people will be grasping for gold. This means more cottages and tax rates, which decreases the amount of barracks and troop production. This alone puts only a subtle strain on players trying to create massive armies but at the same time it solves the problem of creating NPCs.

    Also, to make the tax rate more beneficial, perhaps an adjustment needs to be created so that the amount of gold produced through taxes is much more than what it is. It is the hardest to obtain but the most useless.

    A gold upkeep could be 10% of the current food upkeep while dropping the food upkeep rate to 70% (or even 50%). What this means is that a city that has an original upkeep of 50 mil in food now has an upkeep of 5 mil gold and 35 mil food. If this is implemented on new servers, farming 2 NPC's will get the food needed per hour, but not the gold. Instead, the players must turn to the market or to taxes for troop upkeep.

  6. #456
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Kalifornia USA
    Posts
    11

    Default armyies should serve game play, focus there 1st

    The typical mighty Lord of this game, preoccupied with their armies, brings to mind some lowly squirrel on steroids spending the whole day grabbing their nuts. There is no denying, without more and more resources and ever increases masses, you are a doomed to become a doormat or an alliance drone.

    The question is not about armies. Building a massive force should not become what defines game play nor arbitrarily limited but serve strategy, attain goals including incredulous adulation from your peers in combat and the jeers of detractors and want to be losers.

    In any game I play, I play to WIN either for myself or with a team. And that is where focus need be for all players and this game.

    In all tournament competition, there is a set beginning for all competitors to equally participate wherein an end champion is recognized.

    An example is the Tour de France. All racers who compete thru the stages may ride to the finish line in Paris. All sick, injured and weak competitors are eliminated. There is an overall Tour winner as well team winner. There are also category winners for sprinters, climbers, etc. determined by points system during each Tour stage. Tournament style play provides the opportunity to set a game time period, and is a great way to reward and recognize overall game winner, alliance champion and selective relevant category winners.

    While the question of army size is serious, it should be subjugated merely as a means to an end and not distract from defining the purpose of this game. Focus should be on game play first. How you want to integrate armies within that framework constructively is secondary.

    I enjoy this game and players. Admittedly, where else can you spend time with jovial neighbors threatening you harm and friendly competitors calling you "PUNK!" all day long......... WITHOUT DEFINING A CLEAR PURPOSE, RECOGNITION AND REWARD, THIS GAME SHALL DECLINE TO A FAD OF THE MONTH MEANINGLESS MOMENT, A BUBBLE THAT POPS IN TIME AND IS NO MORE
    oIo

  7. #457

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    When Evony was conceived, it was intended that large armies would not be able to be sustained. Players would be able to have armies based on their food production and armies over that would be lost either in battle or through Refuge.

    The maximum troop levels were not imposed as hard caps, but rather as soft caps. We wanted players to be able to temporarily buff up troops, and then either use them or lose them.

    Players found that by farming NPCs, they could not only sustain much higher troop levels than we intended, but they could do so indefinitely. This was compounded when they began spawn NPC cities specifically for farming.

    While we did not intend for players to be able to sustain armies of the size they are now, we are not necessarily against it. However, there are two things that need to change from the way they are now.

    First, we need to end players ability to make NPC cities wherever they like. This leads to giant clusters of barbarians around many player cities and makes the game map cluttered and unusable.

    Second, we need to find a way for players to maintain armies larger than their food supplies can support, without having to spawn NPC cities. There also needs to be a scaling system for troops, so that it gets more difficult to provide upkeep as you get more troops. It should be an active system of support. It could be farming NPCs or something else. This system must not have any work-arounds or exploits or it will be a pointless change.

    We'd like player ideas on ways to support large armies without the ability to make NPC cities and without relying on giant clusters of NPC cities.

    We're all ears!
    While the problem of massive armies and all the farming/upkeep problem that leads to people making massive farming areas with NPC's that "clutter" the map... Is one that i go out of my way to DO Why you ask? Because if the "enemy" can't get within 15 miles of your city, odds are they will move on to someone they can get to easier, if everyone in your alliance adopts this method, the costs of marching to your members cities coupled with the amount of losses sustained from attacking such defensible cities makes wars very short.
    Define your meaning of war To me it's what we do when we're bored - Sick Puppies - You're Going Down
    [Plisken]: lag, what is this lag you guys speak of?
    [buzzz]: they are slowly laggin ss5 to death
    [buzzz]: every week it will get worse
    [buzzz]: the puttin us on a old 386 with 1 k ram

  8. #458

    Default

    Only been playing 2 weeks.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by Dawnseeker
    "When Evony was conceived, it was intended that large armies would not be able to be sustained. Players would be able to have armies based on their food production and armies over that would be lost either in battle or through Refuge."

    I ask you 1 question.

    If the above quote is true.
    Why do all NPC cities give out wheat in quantities that far outway the other resources?

  9. #459

    Default Good Suggestions

    NPCs are being reset with The Super Server merges regardless. Trends with any game is to find the greatest advantage possible. Goes for every game out there. No matter what is done, you'll find the same issue but in a different area. Ok, So that being said, You may be able to change the game mechanics by all the following.

    More troops require Higher Politics hero, not just attack to train but Politics to keep so many in line, or they riot ... because if you packed a million troops in the same city that was made to only hold a few 100K... well shoot... I'm gonna be one upset soldier. Cramped barracks and cities make for angry pop and military.

    Maybe add another research field for Hording troops

    Onto another issue.. the NPCs...
    I don't see how this can be really fixed without many players calling their Banks right after they can't feed their 1 mill troops anymore because game was changed. It's a tuff call on how to remedy the excess NPCs. Perhaps this.... but it's gonna upset alot of people... Let's consider NPCs as a whole with State player saturation level. What u can do is in each inactive player pass (done at server reset if I understand correctly) make an algorithm that will randomly delete excess NPCs in a OVERLY saturated state... this will open up more flats.
    Yes a player can easily just rebuild their NPCs... but check this out..... if they bot... they will have hard time farming because the bot wont figure out that it's not hitting an NPC anymore but a flat... and let's say it's a level 10.. the player could lose his or her or it's ballista/trans waves in the course of ONE NIGHT. Talk about SOL... lol... So maybe easier for you to catch these bot accounts by doing this. Let's say they play regular and make NPCs to replace the ones lost... they have to wait for the new NPCs to reach max res... this means more time... the more time it takes to get their massive 60 NPC (~ all u can really farm in 8hrs per city) rebuilt... the more likely players will give up rebuilding them.
    Yes, the hardcore players like some of us will keep rebuilding our farms regardless; however, it will make the game more difficult because of the extra maintenance this would require.

    Another factor about wiping per Saturation levels is it will keep the map active.. meaning alot of tele's being used... which means more money for you. Reason is I WOULD tele to the state with the LEAST saturation to build my NPC farming areas... now let's say other players get the same idea and do the same in the same state.. Now saturation in that state and wipes 50%~80% of our NPCs... OUCH! now we gotta either wait, or tele to another state. (Or just move to another server ^^ )

    So... MY SUGGESTION SUMMATION:

    1) HIGH POLITICS HERO NEEDED AS MAYOR TO KEEP LARGE TROOP NUMBERS FROM RIOTING

    2) TREAT NPCS AS PLAYER SATURATION AND WIPE 60%~80% as if inactive accounts when saturation hits an adjustable server amount.

    these both might be easier to implement then some other ideas. And would bring instant results.. I know for one that most players focus on their high attack heroes for instant warriors and even archers instead of keeping their politics and intel heros up.. We already work on the intel heroes for the 50% def bonus.. why not add a needed Pol hero variable to allow a larger army? ^^ I leave it in your hands now my comrades

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