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Thread: End game...

  1. #1

    Default End game...

    Just want to talk about end game.. when everyone, or most everyone has everything researched, and have Super Massive Armies.

    Eventually from there on, things get boring.. as the 'depth' of the game actually decreases when you don't need to consider which research to do first, or Higher Wall or More Barracks first..

    I want to propose something here..
    something like a one-way tech, if you choose one, you cannot advance in the other for the end game.

    This begins when :
    your own 10 cities.
    prestige over 1mm.

    Then from there on, Three new researches are now researchable, you can tech up to level 10, but you can only research on these advance research 10 times...

    so while there are 10 levels for 3 advance researches..
    you can be: a Level 10 in one.
    or, A level 3 in 2 of them, and a Level4 in the other (3+3+4 = 10)

    The three researches you can go into are:

    1, Advance Fortressing
    Allows 10% more wall defense and 5% lower cost per upgrade.

    2, Advance Offensive Battlions
    Allows 5% more damage from high level units, Swords/Catapult/Cataphracts.

    3, Advance Production capabilities
    Allows production of all units to go down by 3% per upgrade.


    Now,.. why this?

    This way, each end game play will be Unique. And players can't get 'everything', and have to make choices, and wonder what life will be if they made another choice.. etc.

    Will probably boost player retention too.
    Last edited by Lord Arumen; 11-21-2009 at 08:17 AM.

  2. #2
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    It would also give some variation so that everyone did not end up as carbo copies of eachother... lurking around and waiting for their nieghbors to log off.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mabel View Post
    Just want to talk about end game.. when everyone, or most everyone has everything researched, and have Super Massive Armies.

    Eventually from there on, things get boring.. as the 'depth' of the game actually decreases when you don't need to consider which research to do first, or Higher Wall or More Barracks first..

    I want to propose something here..
    something like a one-way tech, if you choose one, you cannot advance in the other for the end game.

    This begins when :
    your own 10 cities.
    prestige over 1mm.

    Then from there on, Three new researches are now researchable, you can tech up to level 10, but you can only research on these advance research 10 times...

    so while there are 10 levels for 3 advance researches..
    you can be: a Level 10 in one.
    or, A level 3 in 2 of them, and a Level4 in the other (3+3+4 = 10)

    The three researches you can go into are:

    1, Advance Fortressing
    Allows 10% more wall defense and 5% lower cost per upgrade.

    2, Advance Offensive Battlions
    Allows 5% more damage from high level units, Swords/Catapult/Cataphracts.

    3, Advance Production capabilities
    Allows production of all units to go down by 3% per upgrade.


    Now,.. why this?

    This way, each end game play will be Unique. And players can't get 'everything', and have to make choices, and wonder what life will be if they made another choice.. etc.

    Will probably boost player retention too.
    Ok, I've now upgraded the advanced Techs, what do I do now, different then what I already did? Massive NPC farming to keep my troops happy?

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by EduLeics I View Post
    Ok, I've now upgraded the advanced Techs, what do I do now, different then what I already did? Massive NPC farming to keep my troops happy?
    Exactly this.

    A true endgame involves things to do perpetually, though not simple repetition, which offers some reward. Right now, our barb farming is simple repetition and it only allows you to maintain your army.

  5. #5

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    It's not a bad idea really, but perhaps instead of going in the direction of 3 different researches maybe go along the lines of 5 different paths that lead to certain researches the others don't?

    as in if u choose to go barbaric - u can get researches of heavier strong arms

    as apposed to goin another like roman - extra reasearches in range

    just examples, and alot more could go in, but yeh instead of just advancing 3 different ways in 3 different researches, have 5 different paths that have a few researches that the others dont. (balance might be an issue, something to go more in depth with)

    just seems better then every1 hitting 10, every1 having the same things, basically not even skill winning, more of a time, bigger force and communication between alliance balance at the moment.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by danwithabeer View Post
    It's not a bad idea really, but perhaps instead of going in the direction of 3 different researches maybe go along the lines of 5 different paths that lead to certain researches the others don't?

    as in if u choose to go barbaric - u can get researches of heavier strong arms

    as apposed to goin another like roman - extra reasearches in range

    just examples, and alot more could go in, but yeh instead of just advancing 3 different ways in 3 different researches, have 5 different paths that have a few researches that the others dont. (balance might be an issue, something to go more in depth with)

    just seems better then every1 hitting 10, every1 having the same things, basically not even skill winning, more of a time, bigger force and communication between alliance balance at the moment.
    This kind of thinking reminds me of the talent trees you see in many RPG's. They work in other games because different classes have different roles and different ways to fulfill them. In Evony, we have only one role - smash each other's faces in with armies. With our broken combat mechanics, that boils down to smashing each others faces in with arrows. With what's proposed here, whatever tree is best at smashing each other's faces in with arrows is the tree everyone will inevitably take, and there's only the illusion of choice left (because there is a best choice, and not taking it essentially cripples you).

  7. #7

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    They need this near the begging of the game, have each branch have a different set of units after a certain barrakc level, makes unit blance each other. and the tech would put a person priorties in question by choosing waht they would want to research.

  8. #8
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    here is something I wrote a while back on this matter,

    Introduction
    As we all know, Evony has 1 major fatal flaw, the End game, the point in the game where we all have nothing to do but farm NPCs to upkeep our armies. Most massive online games like this suffer from flaws like this such as Runescape, WoW, etc. Yet Evony unlike those games has a flaw, it has no room to expand what already exist. In other words, they are unable to add new things to try to get those that have reached the end back into the game. Evony, age 2 is an attempt to try to fix this, but it too will more then likely suffer from this major flaw. They have added lvl. 11 NPCs in it as we all know (historical cities) yet it won't take too long before players learn how to crack those, then we arrive at the same predictament. Therefore, what does Evony do in order to keep itself viable?

    Well, as we all know, they did lower the medal drop rate in the new servers/ worlds. This helps keep players from reaching the end game as fast, but it has caused plenty of backlash as well. Now, all Evony is able to promise us is Evony age 2 to try to keep us here through the end game phase. In the mean time, all of us sit here on the forums and are complaining about things until such time as we give up on the release of age 2, we get banned, or we just don't care anymore. (I personally reached the end game, and so on the forums, I hang out with people I have become friends with, and I guess you could say I've been playing a very interesting game of chess with the Reps where I am ultimately defeated (always knew I would be lol) but I think I have caused a bit of restructuring to occur in a good way.)

    Solutions?
    Now, the question becomes, what can Evony do to overcome its fatal flaw without "shafting" users? The answer I think here is expansion. Currently, Evony is a one dimensional game with very basic politics employed in it. Age 2 promises to upgrade some of the options of the game giving it larger width, but in the end, it can only satisfy for so long. One possibility they might do are more daily quest which is good, but those too will become boring after so long.

    My thought though is server specialization. First perhaps a couple of servers could be changed with the way they work.

    Specialized Servers
    Perhaps a lvl. 10 challenge server could be made where all the valleys and NPCs on it are only lvl. 10. It takes away the low level farming, and makes it much more difficult to reach the end game. Of course medal drops would have to be altered for such a server, but only good players would be able to excel in such a server, and I think it would be challenging.

    Another way to specialize a server would be to perhaps remove a unit from the game like archers. Try to force players to use different strategies then they are used to.

    Server specialization such as this would promote people that have mastered the basics to test their skill on a slightly altered setting.

    Beyond that, I was thinking how Evony is a brand, and doesn't necessarily mean mideval warfare. Therefore I got to thinking, why not make another version based off what you have here.

    Another Game (adaptation of current)
    I personally was thinking (you could make, I can't copyright laws etc.) of making a game called Evony: Floatilla (name subject to change.) More or less, taking the basic mold for Evony as it is now, you change the entire map to appear to be ocean. Changing up some graphics/ names/ and techs, you could easily make a pirate version of Evony. Cities would be on islands I guess. The resources used might need to be modified a bit as well (food can stay, just use a fishman's wharf, wood production (sawmill is fine), Iron needs to stay (just keep with a mine), and stone I guess works still as well. Either way, when building a new city, perhaps make it take a bit more stone because that would be needed as fill to turn a water square (which most of the map would be) into land where the city arises from. As for the types of vallies you use for it, I suggest for food increasing, clams, fisheries, and other things like that. For lumber use ship graveyards. For iron use salvage ships, and for stone use some underwater volcanos or something like that (flimsy I know but whatever) The unit types would need to be changed a bit, but more or less they are all ship types, range would be the thing that would need to be played with. Try to keep the rampant NPC. building from occuring there as well because having a map look like land when it should be ocean would sort of be a laugh. (possible unit types = frigate, man o' war, galleon, sloop, privateer, (can't think of other types of boats at the minute))

    Either way, making an adaptation to your current game mechanics to make such a game doesn't seem like it would be too bad. I mean you did change the graphics overnight on us there back on June 1.

    Such a game though would also give a completely different feel to the user.

    Now, as to what happens when a user achieves end game and what point do we call that. I personally think that when a person capture's a lvl 10 NPC that is when end game is reached. It is therefore at that point, I think the Evony should reward that user's e-mail account with 300 cents to be used on another server (make it a quest or something so as you can get it once on every server). This encourages them to start a new game elsewhere while making it where paying users get a return on their investment from one server and can then use it on another server encouraging them to perhaps begin again. Either way, I see it as both user and company win.

    Conclusion
    Anyways, these are some ideas I have had, and I had posted it in GD to begin with (about 2 days ago), but I felt posting it here in Game suggestion would be good as well so that perhaps Evony Admin or one of the Reps see and read it. Either way, if Evony wishes to remain viable, the end game does need to be addressed. (Only so many users in the world, if we all become bored of the game after 1 month if your good, 2 month's average. Then Evony has already gone through about a good portion of a possible gaming community.) Of course this does not completely fix Evony in any way (alliance play still needs to be improved etc.), yet it does give Evony more time to implement changes, it gives the player base more to do, it could perhaps make Evony be willing to raise medal drop rates a bit, It allows Evony to bring more money in on the long run, and its a bunch of fairly simple changes/add-ons to the game that I don't think would be too difficult/expensive to employ. I see this as a win-win situation for all.

    If Evony does try to use something I posted here, I would like to see some compensation for giving you the idea lol. After all, I suggested almost a completely new branch just based off your current mechanics. Don't make me stick my brother the lawyer on you lol.


    Finally, if anyone else has ideas on how Evony could perhaps overcome its major weakness the end, then I ask you suggest them. I mean the game is too short.


    A man might not be able to move a mountain, yet he will accomplish nothing if he never tries.




    Well, I'm tired of these forums. Very little humor in them anymore. Adios all.

  9. #9
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    Why does this game have no end game?

    1. PVP is essentially broken at the late game. With enough defenses, and sometimes micro, you're essentially untouchable and can inflict highly dispraportionate losses on attackers (since they have a bottleneck of 125k). It's why most of us turtle behind massive defenses.
    2. PVE at the endgame doesn't exist. Once you have all of your techs, buildings and promotions, you're done. You have to farm barbs to maintain the massive army required not to get stomped, and leveling your heroes is a fruitless effort because if you're playing for PVE, you've nothing to do with those heroes outside of say "lookit my high level hero!"
    3. Fighting is our only option. There's nothing to do except fight. I know a lot of people snort derisively at the sim city type players, but some people prefer it, and once their buildings are built there's nothing left for them to do.

    How do we fix it?

    1. Fix the broken PVP/combat system. A higher number of the same quality troops wins any engagement definitively. This is why our attacking bottleneck and smashing newbs is a problem. If the losing side could potentially inflict 1:1, or even 1:2 losses, then smashing newbs would be less attractive and we'd have a chance to take down cities where everyone's nice and cozy inside the walls.
    2. Introduce daily quests that are actually quests. Rename the daily quest we have now to daily gift or something - it's not a quest, put it in another tab. I saw in the brief time the beta was out hero quests, and I hope these quests aren't just one-time things. You could even introduce an element where your heroes become wanderers doing good deeds for your kingdom, giving you random gifts/tributes, but dying eventually, giving you a reason to cycle heroes and release them. However you accomplish it, give us varied, engaging tasks with some reward, and we'll be much more engaged.
    3. Give us something other to do than fight. I proposed a trading element to the game not long ago. Another idea, along with loyalty, you could have a happiness rating, and extra buildings involving the arts or religion which influence it. Attacking a center of religion or the arts may even cause attacking players to lose troops, as a balance to their lack of military prowess.

    Even if you don't agree with the three sets of solutions here, I think the three problems outlined are widely considered basic problems with the endgame, and what most needs addressing.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by ABakker View Post
    here is something I wrote a while back on this matter,
    The ideas outlined are pretty good, but they don't actually do anything to alleviate the problems at the end game. They give us new games, at which point we reach the end and, once again, have nothing to do. I don't see it as a solution to the end game... just a delay.

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