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Thread: Combat Calculator redux

  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Birtles View Post
    Edited, thanks. That'll teach me to read formulae from spreadsheet cells. Maths looks plain ugly when linear, this is much prettier.



    Strictly speaking it needs another pair of brackets. Speaking of which, you should really add some to your own formula, seeing as we're picking nits
    Yeap, that looks much better.

    I forgot to add in the base value in mine. Whoops!

    This is why I calculate things in multiple steps. Less likely to skip certain things

  2. #22

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    Just putting this here:

    Since you said Defense can't reduce more than 50% damage, there is a "cap" to the usefulness of Int in combat. So taking into account IW10 and various units, we have:

    0.5 = (IW + Int + 100) * D / 100,000
    50,000 = (50 + Int + 100) * D
    Int = 50,000 / D - 150

    Worker (D = 10)::: Int = 4850
    Warrior (D = 50):: Int = 850
    Scout ( D = 20)::: Int = 2350
    Pikes (D = 150)::: Int = 184
    Swords (D = 250):: Int = 50
    Archers (D = 50):: Int = 850
    Cavs (D = 180):::: Int = 128
    Phracts (D = 350): Int = 0 (it's actually a negative number so Phracts are already "defense capped" after IW10 - or IW9 to be exact - so that's why they're one tough mofo)
    Bal (D = 160)::::: Int = 163
    Pult (D = 200):::: Int = 100
    Ram (D = 160)::::: Int = 163

  3. #23

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    Interesting, I'm sure Darkbrady will be getting his attack heroes to 50 Intelligence as we speak Players on the older servers have probably dismissed their Int heroes once all the techs are maxed, think I'll hold onto mine.

  4. #24

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    Plugging your results into the formula for the high int vs no hero case
    Attackers' damage

    B/100(H + T + 100)N

    B base attack, H hero attack, T Military Training (percentage), N number of attackers
    We get into the linear maths issue here but I think what you're getting at is better expressed as: (B*N*(100+T +N))/100.
    For
    B = 250; H = 0; T = 45; N= 100
    Attacker's damage = 36,250

    Defence

    1 - (((I + T + 100)/100)D)/1000)

    I intelligence, T Iron Working (percentage), D base defence
    For
    I =138; T=50; D=150
    1 - (((138 + 50 + 100)/100)*150)/1000

    Defence = 0.568

    Life

    L x 1.T

    L base life, T Medicine (percentage)

    L=300; T=50
    Life = 450

    Effective Life

    Life/Defence

    Life (as derived from above formula),Defence (ditto)

    Life=450; Defence=0.568
    Effective life= 792.3

    Casualties

    Attacker's Damage/Effective Life

    Attackers' Damage (as derived from above formula),Effective Life (ditto)

    Attacker's damage = 36250; Effective Life=792
    36250/792

    Casualties = 45.77
    But fractions are dropped when working out casualties in melee so 45 it is (which fits with the observed result).

    I'm intrigued because I've read before that defence acts to lower the damage that is incoming rather than as an increase in effective life, this makes a lot more sense because otherwise you could get to say 150 int and have cataphracts that take no damage.

    I changed your repetition of the use of some variables as I think it is easier to understand if written out in full, particularly as you seem to have used the same symbol to mean different things.

  5. #25

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    This is really good stuff

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by aach View Post
    I'm intrigued because I've read before that defence acts to lower the damage that is incoming rather than as an increase in effective life, this makes a lot more sense because otherwise you could get to say 150 int and have cataphracts that take no damage.
    That can't happen because of the 50% Defense cap. You can't reduce damage by more than 50%.

    Take a look at my list 2 posts above.

  7. #27
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    this might finally explain some of the wack reports there have been
    Forgive, but dont forget, girl keep yuh head up.

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by aach View Post
    ... fractions are dropped when working out casualties in melee so 45 it is (which fits with the observed result).

    I'm intrigued because I've read before that defence acts to lower the damage that is incoming rather than as an increase in effective life, this makes a lot more sense because otherwise you could get to say 150 int and have cataphracts that take no damage.

    I changed your repetition of the use of some variables as I think it is easier to understand if written out in full, particularly as you seem to have used the same symbol to mean different things.
    Thanks for validating the numbers aach.

    I've also added Neokarasu's chart to the first post - thanks for that. I need to do further testing to confirm whether or not scouts (and workers while I'm at it) are effected by Intelligence (be pretty ironic if they aren't!) and Iron Working.

    Edit: defence does still decrease damage, I use effective life for the purpose of my spreadsheet - it made it easier for me to have a single figure rather than two (I'm just starting to learn how to make them).
    Last edited by Birtles; 11-28-2009 at 07:31 PM.

  9. #29

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    I did some testing too to see if these results are handy when you want to lose.
    2k cav against a L5 NPC (the same L5 1.1 hour apart for each test no scouting so same hero)
    Bart: Attack 100; int 51: 564 Abatis 638 trap cleared in 4 rounds
    Leo:: attack 100; int 17: 458 Abatis 788 trap cleared in 3 rounds

    3k War against L5 NPC
    Bart:: Attack 100; Int 51:: 2065 trap in 9 rounds
    Word: Attack 16; Int 109: 1914 trap in 9 rounds
    Kirk:: Attack 100; Int 15:: 1538 trap in 9 rounds

    Got me baffled with that result. It seems like trap and abatis clearance require decent int and decent attack. I'd seen it posted that you wanted a low attack hero for trap clearance and I've had decent results doing that but maybe that's because my low attack guys have high int.

    I also confirmed Neokarasu's maths that int above 51 doesn't do anything for Swordsmen - both Word and Bart lost the same number of troops (268) when an overwhelming number of sword sent to a L5 hill (50 cav, 105 sword, 158 pike, 467 war)
    Last edited by aach; 11-29-2009 at 07:25 AM. Reason: credit Neokarakasu and add rounds in NPCs battle

  10. #30
    Join Date
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    Location
    washington (united states)
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    Quote Originally Posted by aach View Post
    I did some testing too to see if these results are handy when you want to lose.
    2k cav against a L5 NPC (the same L5 1.1 hour apart for each test no scouting so same hero)
    Bart: Attack 100; int 51: 564 Abatis 638 trap cleared
    Leo:: attack 100; int 17: 458 Abatis 788 trap cleared

    3k War against L5 NPC
    Bart:: Attack 100; Int 51:: 2065 trap
    Word: Attack 16; Int 109: 1914 trap
    Kirk:: Attack 100; Int 15:: 1538 trap

    Got me baffled with that result.

    I also confirmed that int above 51 doesn't do anything for Swordsmen - both Word and Bart lost the same number of troops (268) when an overwhelming number of sword sent to a L5 hill (50 cav, 105 sword, 158 pike, 467 war)
    your intellgince part about swrodsman not bieng affected when over 51 intelligence was said by neokarasu like 4 post earlier..
    Quote Originally Posted by Neokarasu View Post
    Just putting this here:

    Since you said Defense can't reduce more than 50% damage, there is a "cap" to the usefulness of Int in combat. So taking into account IW10 and various units, we have:

    0.5 = (IW + Int + 100) * D / 100,000
    50,000 = (50 + Int + 100) * D
    Int = 50,000 / D - 150

    Worker (D = 10)::: Int = 4850
    Warrior (D = 50):: Int = 850
    Scout ( D = 20)::: Int = 2350
    Pikes (D = 150)::: Int = 184
    Swords (D = 250):: Int = 50
    Archers (D = 50):: Int = 850
    Cavs (D = 180):::: Int = 128
    Phracts (D = 350): Int = 0 (it's actually a negative number so Phracts are already "defense capped" after IW10 - or IW9 to be exact - so that's why they're one tough mofo)
    Bal (D = 160)::::: Int = 163
    Pult (D = 200):::: Int = 100
    Ram (D = 160)::::: Int = 163
    Forgive, but dont forget, girl keep yuh head up.

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