The "DEAD ZONE" : why wall range buff makes seige useless in attacking

[Andante]

Assuming both attacker and defender has max tech and max walls. We have 100% range bonus for defender and 50% range bonus for attacker, also 100% movement bonus for infantry and 50% movement bonus for siege weapons.

With these buffs, the stats are listed as following.

Defenders,
Archer range: 2400
Archer tower range: 2600
Ballista range: 2800
Catapult range: 3000

Attackers
Archer range: 1800 speed:500
Ballista range: 2100 speed:150
Catapult range: 2250 speed:120

Notice there is a huge gap between defenders and attackers when it comes to range, I call this gap the "DEAD ZONE", I'll explain why in a bit.

Lets say the defenders only had archer towers and some abatis/traps and the attacker sends only ballista.

Ballista vs archer towers... 2100 range vs 2600 range. Dead Zone area= 500.
The battle will begin at 5000 range due to the abatis/traps and the ballistas will slowly move towards the archer towers at 150 speed to get into range.

However since the ballista's speed is 150 and the dead zone area is 500, they will have to spend 3-4 rounds just crossing the dead zone. 3 rounds minimum, 4 rounds max. This is 3-4 rounds of the archer towers firing volleys and the siege being unable to attack back due to being out of range.

Now lets look at catapults, they have a better range of 2250 so they should fare much better right?... WRONG.
Catapult vs archer towers... 2250 range vs 2600 range. Dead zone area = 350, catapult max speed= 120.

This means that catapults will require 2-3 rounds (most likely 3 rounds) to cross the dead zone area before being able to attack back.

Now lets look at the alternative... archers.
Archers vs archer towers... 1800 range vs 2600 range. Dead zone area = 800, max speed=500.

Archers will be able to cross the dead zone area in only 1 or 2 rounds. This means archers have a much better chance of surviving the Dead Zone than their siege counterparts, however they will suffer heavy losses before being able to get a volley off.

Mixed Troops Strategy and Why it Fails Against the Dead Zone

Now you might be saying now that its dumb to send just one unit type to attack, and that a mixed troop approach would be best.

Such as 40k archers, 30k ballista, 10k catapults, 5k swords, 1k pike, 1k warriors, 1k cavalry, 1k cataphracts would beat 18k archer towers and a few hundred traps and abatis no problem...right?

Actually no... there has been many battle reports showing that mixed troops fail against 18k archer towers and here is why.

Battle begins at 5000 range due to traps and abatis. AT range is 2600 so the units will have to travel at least 2400 in order to get into range.

The cavalry and cataphracts will get into AT range first after 2-3 rounds, however they will all die because 1 volley will finish each of them off.

Pike (600 speed) will be in AT range in 4 rounds (2400 traveled) and die in 1 volley.

Sword (550 speed) will be in AT range in 5 rounds (2750 traveled) and also die in 1 volley.

Archers (500 speed) will also be in AT range in 5 rounds (2500 traveled) and but have to travel 2 more rounds in order to get into range to attack archer towers. By the time they get into range more than half will be dead, and they might kill a few hundred archer towers before dying.

Now the siege weapons are left all by themselves traveling at a snails pace to get into range while all non siege attackers have been finished off.

Ballista (150 speed) will be in AT range in 16 rounds (2400 traveled) and will be in the dead zone for 3 rounds before getting into range. In these 3 rounds 17-18k AT will finish off the 30k ballista no sweat.

Then Catapults (120 speed) will finally reach AT range in 20 rounds (2400 traveled) and will have to endure 2 rounds of the dead zone, but most likely 10k catapults will be easily finished off before they can fire back.

Conclusion

The mixed battle might have turned out much more different if the defenders had zero traps or abatis, due to forcing the starting combat range to 2600. However since traps are so easy to produce and almost everyone has at least 1, it is almost impossible to clear all the traps... especially if you have machinery. At max Machinery 30% defenses that died regenerate, thus it would literally take hundreds of clearing waves to clear all traps if the opponent has machinery.

Another thing to note is that the battles would have been MUCH worse if the defenders had a decent amount of ballista due to their 2800 range while defending thus extending the dead zone by 200 range... A decent number of ballistas and archer towers makes assaults nearly impossible for attackers.
The dead zone gap coupled by the slow moving speed of siege makes siege weapons a thing of the past for attacking. Archers do fare better due to how quick they are but are easily wiped out if the opponent has a decent defense.

Even though the range bonus for defenders might make sense... it does not mash well with evony combat mechanics. The fact that units move at different speeds in combat, meaning by the time they reach the dead zone, they are all spread out getting killed one by one, means that the implementation of the dead zone is almost game breaking due to current combat mechanics.

Either combat mechanics/unit stats have to change or the ranged wall buff has to change. They are literally incompatible.

[NemoInTheWoods]

very well done! bravo!

and just to note to those who think defense is fine, this doesn't even take into account the pain you have to deal with when you have open gates and rainbow troops to deal with as an attacker

[Wakestrum]

im drunk and canniot understand any of that, seems like good stuf though!

[Sloan]

I think everyone knows this tho. It's the only reason I haven't attacked anyone with a sizable army since the day after patch when I lost a little less then 300k troops to 50k enemy troops.

[Andante]

Originally Posted by Sloan

I think everyone knows this tho. It's the only reason I haven't attacked anyone with a sizable army since the day after patch when I lost a little less then 300k troops to 50k enemy troops.

yeah, I'm pretty sure everyone that is experienced in attacking knows that breaking a good defense is almost impossible... I'm just explaining why such things are the way they are.

[SDog]

Originally Posted by NemoInTheWoods

very well done! bravo!

/Agreed.

Very good job.

[tranq]

Christopher Walken was ace in The Dead Zone.

[ByronXAN]

[IMG]http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f202/chip5150/****.jpg[/IMG]

Just don't use ballista

[Alexios]

Thanks for taking the time on that Andante, good work!

Originally Posted by ByronXAN

Just don't use ballista

Had they had anything more than that you would be dead. Most people I actually need to kill have 100k+ archers. You cant scratch that with anything.

[pokey]

Originally Posted by Alexios

Thanks for taking the time on that Andante, good work!



Had they had anything more than that you would be dead. Most people I actually need to kill have 100k+ archers. You cant scratch that with anything.

almost anything