When I was a kid we had a pet dog. She was the friendliest dog in the world, yet when the neighborhood kids would ask "Does she bite?" My dad would reply "She has teeth, doesn't she?"
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When I was a kid we had a pet dog. She was the friendliest dog in the world, yet when the neighborhood kids would ask "Does she bite?" My dad would reply "She has teeth, doesn't she?"
...Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortexxx
That related to this conversation in no way whatsoever. Unless you count that both the dog and the whale are animals...
Lol, yes, the trainers knew the whale had teeth and that it could kill. No need to kill it for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vortexxx
Actually Joe, your comment is less pertinent to the convoQuote:
Originally Posted by joemanf
... I still don't understand... What the heck does a dog have to do with a whale?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Arumen
Absolutely nothing, except that some people think they can treat them the same way because they are both "animals". (as opposed to us "humans" who are not "animals" because we are so ****ing smart.)Quote:
Originally Posted by joemanf
Completely agree, killing this whale for doing what essentially is a backlash at being separated from their family and kept in a white concrete room, where occasionally they are taken out in to a bigger room where they do jumping jacks four times per day, for people that find them "interesting".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Arumen
Imagine knowing you were going to live the rest of your life like that!
Thank you, I thought when I was posting the comment would go over the head of some.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Arumen
Hello and good evening.
In my personal viewpoint, there is only one thing that is infinite in the whole framework of the cosmos: human stupidity.
I believe that in numerous aspects, humans are inferior to other animals and creatures. Human beings are the only creatures who inflict self-harm on themselves intentionally, subjugate others for "glory" and "truth", engage in lascivious acts for mere enjoyment and indulge in other perverse activities.
I am bold to say that humanity in its collective representation or the "common herd of man" excluding the great men and women of history is a cluster of bestial creatures filled with elemental savagery. If regular/average humans were portrayed by their moral beliefs and values on the exterior framework, humans would crawl on all fours and groan in their cacophonous or dissonant cries and bellows, and engage in putrid and vile passions.
It is a tragedy to see that there are many who view a state of subservience and obeisance [in captivity or bound to a closed and confined space] with a small degree of safety [regarding both animals and humans] as satisfactory. Such individuals deserve neither autonomy/liberty nor safety!
...This is the perfect example of someone who reads the title of the thread and probably doesn't even read the Op.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadBrit2
And for conrad, I will have a response to your post when I'm done looking up half the words in your post! =P
...But thank you for sharing your wisdom in my thread.
My two pence;
Yes, the whale killed. Yes, there are people who feel that captivity is wrong. Yes there are people that think that the whale acted out due to captivity. Yes, there are people who believe that it should be put down. Yes, there are people who believe that it should be released. And finally yes, there are people who feel it should stay in SeaWorld and carry on its daily life.
The only sentence above with a definitive answer is the first one, stating that it killed a trainer. There are arguments for and against all of the other statements.
1. Captivity is wrong.
I completely agree that limiting the living space of a wild animal is not ideal. It can be considered as cruel in some aspects whilst in others people turn a blind eye due to the benefits. Some animals are placed in captivity for attraction, some to ensure the continuation of the species. Some are disgracefully mistreated. My personal view in this case is that the animals are treated well enough to warrant their purpose in captivity. From what I have seen at SeaWorld, the animals seem to enjoy the human company, but there is no way of knowing for sure if this is generally the case or not. The following quote is one of the benefits I believe to outweigh the detriment of captivity;
2. The whale acted out as a response to captivity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
There is no way to tell if this is the case, and its completely naive to think so. To base an argument on this just isn?t smart. I understand that these creatures are considered intelligent enough to plan an event like this based on their living situation, and this may well be true. If this was the case however, wouldn?t you think that there would have been more than four deaths in the last twenty two years?(see citation). Has anyone considered that this animal, with comparable intelligence to humans, may have a comparable personality? Maybe a bad mood, or a bad day?
Citation; (No, I have not researched this myself, I?ll take his word for it. If this information proves to be incorrect, please let me know. (Love the comparison, sounds like something I?d come out with, +rep for you :D))
3. Putting the whale down / humane termination.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aramis
Under extreme circumstances, animals should be put down. However I feel only in cases where the animal provides a continual risk, or liklihood of further human harm. If the animal can be placed in an acceptable environment where causation of harm to humans is removed from the equation, I believe this is the best cause. With regard to this point, there are a number of options which remove any possibility of harm to humans and avoid ending the creature?s life. Due to this, I find this course of action to be wholly unacceptable.
4. The whale should be released.
In an ideal world I would back up this argument wholeheartedly. This, however is not an ideal world. The factors preventing this are in most cases insurmountable. To release an animal after so long in captivity produces the following problems;
i. Feeding. Quite often when animals are released, they have become so dependant on humans in their daily life, that they are unable to survive on their own. Regardless of the fact that Axer?s point on Keiko starving was incorrect, it still happens, just not in this case.
ii. Disease. Whilst in human captivity, we are able to provide innoculation and other medical assistance. Without which, the animal would be crippled and/or killed in the wild.
Citation; (corrected your spelling too, aren?t I kind?)
iii. Reintegration. When animals are released, especially animals which require external contact, they can often have problems reintegrating with their own species. Whilst in captivity they have the communication with any other captive whales, and their trainers, in the wild they require communication and co-operation with their own species (see citation). Whilst I cannot assuredly say whether or not this would apply to whales, not being a marine biologist, it is certainly a thought to be consideredQuote:
Originally Posted by Violation_s51
Citation;
5. The whale should be kept.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodri
This is the argument that I most strongly support. If the whale is considered to be a danger to humans by thos who make the decisions, I believe it should be removed from close human interaction, and kept in a similar way to the more dangerous animals we see at marine zoological parks. Maintain the interactions with human trainers, but not to an extent where future harm is possible. That animal will still be looked after more than adequately, like all the others in these situations, yet will pos no future risk.
My personal views
To conclude, I feel that the whale should be kept at the park, looked after and removed from situations exposing risk of human harm. This is entirely possible to do whilst maintaining its current quality of life. Releasing it to the wild, I think, hold the probability of doing more harm than good. Mainly due to the issues of sustenance, reintegration and disease which I have highlighted previously. Ending the animal?s life, a definite no, in my book.
I know there are people here who will agree with some of these points, maybe even all. I also know that there are thos of you who won?t. I will accept all points made, but I do ask that you do so civily, as I have put a fair amount of time into this, and I get annoyed easily :D
Thanks all, and be nice!
The Orca Whales have a "Range" Of thousands of Miles in the ocean. Some of them go from British Columbia and then meander their way down to the Argentine Patagonia. So Rodri is right. Off Topic but there was the small Great White captured and held in Monterey Bay Aquarium. After a bit the thing got agitated, kept running into the walls and started trying to eat the Sun Fish (Which would have made me cry, the Sunfish is creepy awesome) Anyways, they put the shark back in the wild and tracked it all the way to South Africa.
Now, Orcas are extremely intelligent, social creatures. The issue is whether the Orcas, if all released into the wild would be able to either A) Find their original Pod (Or gander or Book club or whatever a group of them is called) Or B) the ones bred in captivity will find any new group that would accept them.
In the end this is an issue about whether to allow the orca to keep performing, or to keep it in some back pen and used for studding which is what it normally does.
My Opinion may be skewed because i think ALL Animals should be fitted with Guns and Lasers, and we will see who rules this world.