it did not say anywhere that killing animals was bad. Woman and Man did not "betray god" as you say god did not feel betrayed. Plus the actually translation of the 4 commandment is thy shall not murder.
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it did not say anywhere that killing animals was bad. Woman and Man did not "betray god" as you say god did not feel betrayed. Plus the actually translation of the 4 commandment is thy shall not murder.
well then we all murder for a good reason and a bad reason
I don't think human are good nor evil. We are Humans, and we will never be anything else! (unless some people have sx with ailens) It is in human nature to be "evil" and "good". So it is with ALL types of animals. And that is final.
final for you perhaphs. i dislike when others in a debate say "thats final" to me it is a statment that you are done debating the issue. which may be nessacary in person, but on a forum you may simply walk a way from a thread that you are done with.
please let those of us who are not done continue the debate.
thank you
i think imnotthere is right humans arent evil nor good
What I meant with it was that animals are like us on that point, not that I'm done with the debateQuote:
Originally Posted by imnothere
What you are saying her is that animals don't kill, but they do.Quote:
Originally Posted by alkhest
convince me i am right, please. i am still undecided on the voting and while my heart leans heavily one way my head and all logic leans the other.Quote:
Originally Posted by alkhest
i have always trusted my heart above everything else, and i would hate to think that it is wrong, but i am open to the possibility
((After my opinion, was this the best debate thread atm))
Genesis3
1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the LORD God had made. He said to the woman, "Did God really say, 'You must not eat from any tree in the garden'?"
2 The woman said to the serpent, "We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3 but God did say, 'You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.' "
4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."...
21 The LORD God made garments of skin for Adam and his wife and clothed them. 22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever." 23 So the LORD God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side [e] of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life.
So the "original sin" that is the sin that caused God to cast Adam and Eve from the garden was to eat from the "tree of awareness of good and evil", or as I called it earlier, the tree of knowledge. It was not for eating the fruit of the tree of life. Mankind was kept from eating the fruit of the tree of life by God because mankind had eaten from the tree of knowledge.
If we take this story as an allegory and not as a literal recording of events, we can see that this passage of the Bible is telling us that it is our judging others to be good or evil that is what has led to the downfall of man and what keeps us from eternal life. Of course it is now in our nature to judge because we have the awareness, so it could be said that we are all tainted by the "original sin".
The ancient Egyptians had a similar belief with a story of judgement where the dead would have their heart cut out and weighed and only those with a heart lighter than a feather would be allowed to pass into Heaven. To me this suggests that only if we can overcome judging ourselves, because we all know there are things that we have done which would weigh heavy on our hearts, can we enter heaven.
I don't mean for this to sound like a religious tract. I am simply trying to make the point that philosophically, it has been long believed that the act of judging others as good or evil also causes us to be held accountable by the same standards.
I think man as a whole is truly good, But there are many factors that might make it seem like they are not.
...I'll post more when my legs aren't so numb they actually hurt....
Bold: That could be a possibility... explain more when you can, eh?Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooke ♥♥
Underlined: That's what she said. I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself. Lol.
The vast majority of people are indifferent to all but themselves and therefore
EVIL BY DEFAULT
Man basically has a good track record in the field of making a good decisionQuote:
Originally Posted by joemanf
if push comes to shove. When natural disasters happen, Most of human nature try to do what they can to be of aid, Or at least have sorrow towards those affected. If we as man were evil, Then noone would help those when they are in need. And would have sad feelings towards those affected.
Crimes and other things are what often overshadow how man is basically good.
And I sometimes believe that crimes that involve the loss of life happen for a reason to stop overpopulation. Just like the food chain...
...I really thought you were above this, Joe.Quote:
Underlined: That's what she said. I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself. Lol.
if i see brooke post in a thread, i only come to look at the awesome rock she has as a picture :)
but not to troll too much...
i think i can quote John Locke when he said that man was born with a clean slate and potential to grow and such. He was a very optimistic person who also supported a form of Democracy in the 1600's to 1700's time period. i would most likely lean with him.
Also people can quote Hobbes with his quote saying that man is inherently evil and destined to dooming themselves in the long run. Supporting a monarchical government earlier than Locke, he was pessimistic due to previous interactions with bad luck. He was involved in the English Revolution and was in several of the battles where he lost many friends which made him a cold hearted midget....
too bad trolling isnt easy anymore, now i actually gotta say something productive while trying to troll and compliment brooke :)
sorry if i accidently said what someone else already said... i can say that i did not read everything
I can usually control myself, but every once in awhile I have to let human nature take over, else I would go mad. Every mature person is like this, if you study them long enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooke ♥♥
Also, good points by Brooke and Ghost. Keep up the good work :D
There is a difference between human nature and immaturity.Quote:
Originally Posted by joemanf
...I voted Neitehr. But I thought you said was GOD goood er evil. So, I'm screwed....I pick evil.
A very small one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brooke ♥♥
That's a really weird thing to ask... Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Darkregionlord
I say man is evil when eve took that first bite from the fruit of good and evil and persuaded adam into eating it that was treachery because she disobeyed god which was the first act of evil which made man evil
A-ha! I was waiting for that!Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor71383
Yes, but do you remember who tempted Eve into eating the apple? The serpent, who some say was Satan himself. So evil originated from him with a silver tongue and a desire for knowledge, or so the Bible says. So maybe man was (and is) neutral? Maybe they can be easily influenced. It depends on which person gets to them first :D
Edit: Sorry if that was religious, but I couldn't help it. I HAD to answer that. Lol.
Summary of entire thread:
We're all just curious lametards. Teh 3hnd
Quote:
Originally Posted by joemanf
maybe...but is it not eve the one that listened to the serpent when god told them not to listen to him
If you go by the catholic churchs stance then man is not evil. They just have original sin. Which was Adam and eves punishment not branding them evil
lol that shut us all up but im not catholic so i just believe in what i know as the truth
if we bring religion into this, we must ask ourselves something. Was Jesus born good or evil? obvious answer is Good. and Jesus was a man... therefore man is inherently good.... right ;)
since jesus died on the cross for our sins, he takes the burdens of all wrong-doing we do since we are just players on God's chess board and are creating history as we go.
We can believe a certain religion where your are pre-destined to do "stuff" so all your actions. well they are not your actions, someone made you in a robotic form that is already going to breath a certain amount of times and live a certain amount of years. Therefore, man is just a pawn in the game of life between Good, God, and Evil, Satan.....
btw, we should probably get off the religious topic.... i dont think mods like religion being discussed in the forums. sorry for being hypocritical but had to make a point to the religion bringing ppl here
also i like this thread more and more, please have relevant comments to the point of the thread, other convos can probably be moved to PM or Vm :p
Half the problems I have is trying to define what is good and what is evil because so much of it can be dependant upon perspective. Some people say that to kill another person is evil but then other people will say that there are exceptions to that and it all depends on the circumstances in which it happens. Other people will say that gluttony is evil but it seems like almost everyone who over-eats does so not because they are actual gluttons but because of emotional problems that they cope with by eating, or because of eating the wrong foods that give empty calories but don't satisfy hunger.
Or then there is greed but that seems to be difficult to quantify as well, because the person that I think is greedy may simply be successful at what they do and enjoying the benefits of that success and would never consider themself to be greedy. In fact, they may think that they are very generous because they are working hard to give their family the best life they can, while sacrificing their own desires to slack off or take off on adventures.
It is almost impossible to tell what is the true motivator for anyone's behaviour as there are so many factors that have to be considered such as history, state of mind, etc. I am not saying that no-one ever does anything wrong with the knowledge that what they are doing is wrong. Of course there are those who do bad things knowing fully that what they are doing is bad.
I just don't think that is the over-riding nature of most people. I basically believe that most people try to live a decent life and not hurt others at all. Most people, most of the time, if not trying to do good, are trying not to do wrong. But because we are not perfect beings, we can make mistakes and even make bad decisions. I just don't think that is enough to declare that people are basically evil.
in the modern world everyone has tried to think that theirs ways around this when theirs not he sees and hears everything we do and say even when you think hey i got that one passed god guess what....ya didnt....even when you think hey maybe hes not looking...he is
People are extremely gray nowadays. There's only black and white, unfortunately. However, we can't talk about religion on the forum. It'll end up in an infraction. Lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by raptor71383
well i finally made up my mind and voted and was amazingly shocked when i did, because i got to see how the poll was trending. yes i'm the 3rd vote. i always follow my heart even if my head says its wrong.
and my heart tells me that ppl are all good deep down. you have to dig rather deep with some ppl but i still belive its there.
Mankind is inherently good.
However in the pursuit of good intentions, we have justified great evils.
The person is inherently good, the crowd is inherently evil.
Sometimes we are the person, sometimes we are part of the crowd.
That's... wow. That literally just blew my mind, Rota. You just showed me that it's not a homogeneous mixture with many shades of gray, but it's heterogeneous, with what you said.
Wow.
you didnt see that man is never homagoneous??
I disagree with Rota here:D,the most evil thing is believing mankind is good imoQuote:
Originally Posted by Rota
most people are evil,
if they get an oppurtinity getting away with something they will use it
if a man finds a river made of gold,he will look around if there is a second one
but thats my plan to end up in heaven,hell will be full so maybe God will say 'oo sorry no space left for you,I have to send you to heaven':)
thats the sillist logic i have ever seen, i'm sorry but it is. if everyone keeps claiming there is room for everyone in heaven then logicly there must be room for everyone in hell too.
Since when has mysticism been logical?Quote:
Originally Posted by imnothere
i thought man was born in sin
Yeah. All because Eve ate in the garden and Adam banged some things.
Yudhishthira said: I desire, O bull of Bharata’s race, to hear in detail the source from which sin proceeds and the foundation upon which it rests.
Bhishma said: Hear, O King, what the foundation is of sin. Covetousness alone is a great destroyer of merit and goodness. From covetousness proceeds sin. It is from this source that sin and irreligiousness flow, together with great misery. This covetousness is the spring of also all the cunning and hypocrisy in the world. It is covetousness that makes men commit sin. From covetousness proceeds wrath; from covetousness flows lust, and it is from covetousness that loss of judgment, deception, pride, arrogance, and malice, as also vindictiveness, loss of prosperity, loss of virtue, anxiety, and infamy spring. Miserliness, cupidity, desire for every kind of improper act, pride of birth, pride of learning, pride of beauty, pride of wealth, pitilessness for all creatures, malevolence towards all, mistrust in respect of all, insincerity towards all, appropriation of other people’s wealth, ravishment of other people’s wives, harshness of speech, anxiety, propensity to speak ill of others, violent craving for the indulgence of lust, gluttony, liability to premature death, violent propensity towards malice, irresistible liking for falsehood, unconquerable appetite for indulging in passions, insatiable desire for indulging in ear, evil-speaking, boa****lness, arrogance, non-doing of duties, rashness, and perpetration of every kind of evil act,- all these proceed from covetousness.
^ Please try your best to keep religion out of this discussion. I don't want my thread closed. Thank you.