On War or Art of War or Other?

Havn't read 'On War', but 'The Art of War' was one of the best things I ever read. Ever.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalent

May I note that not everybody's a soldier.
The majority of the world's population lives life not as a soldier. Yes, military tactics can be applied in real life to help you in your life, and can give you many teachings and lessons, but the reason you're giving is purely unreasonable. How many people nowadays actually have to deal with getting overran by enemy soldiers?

---

A small fraction of the population (assuming no major wars in the near future), but that's not the point. Both texts are designed for the purpose of giving strategic and tactical advice to commanders. However, only one of them actually does so, while the other spouts vaguely worded homilies like they're pronouncements from some major deity. Life lessons are always good, but how useful is something like this?

"The general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose."

Useless in war, useless in peace. It doesn't do what it's supposed to do, and it doesn't do anything else, either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Axer NZ

A small fraction of the population (assuming no major wars in the near future), but that's not the point. Both texts are designed for the purpose of giving strategic and tactical advice to commanders. However, only one of them actually does so, while the other spouts vaguely worded homilies like they're pronouncements from some major deity. Life lessons are always good, but how useful is something like this?

"The general who wins a battle makes many calculations in his temple ere the battle is fought. The general who loses a battle makes but few calculations beforehand. Thus do many calculations lead to victory, and few calculations to defeat: how much more no calculation at all! It is by attention to this point that I can foresee who is likely to win or lose."

Useless in war, useless in peace. It doesn't do what it's supposed to do, and it doesn't do anything else, either.

---

You have a point there. The texts were intended for military use, but in this situation, we should be looking more at how much it can teach us, and how well will we be able to apply these teachings.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalent

You have a point there. The texts were intended for military use, but in this situation, we should be looking more at how much it can teach us, and how well will we be able to apply these teachings.

---

That's exactly my point. TAOW teaches us nothing more than what the most basic common sense would be able to determine, and does it in a very roundabout way. You'd be better off using a Magic 8-Ball for advice, whereas On War actually has quite a bit of decent, usable information in it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Axer NZ

That's exactly my point. TAOW teaches us nothing more than what the most basic common sense would be able to determine, and does it in a very roundabout way. You'd be better off using a Magic 8-Ball for advice, whereas On War actually has quite a bit of decent, usable information in it.

---

I'm persuaded now, but...


Men are fools, they need reminding of common sense..

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalent

I'm persuaded now, but...


Men are fools, they need reminding of common sense..

---

You need common sense, you read Common Sense. That's just common sense.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Axer NZ

You need common sense, you read Common Sense. That's just common sense.

---

Needs moar common sense.

Carl von Clausewitz's On War;

Niccolo Machiavelli's The Art of War;

Vegetius' The Art of War;

Emperor Maurice's [attributed] Strategikon;

Xenophon's Cyropaedia, Hipparchicus, Hiero;

The military manuals of the Ancient Greeks and Romans such as Frontinus, Polybius, Titus Livy, Ammianus Marcellinus, etc;

The military manuals of European commanders such as Montecuccoli, Hermann-Maurice comte de Saxe, the Hohenzollern King of Prussia Frederick II 'the Great', Prince Eugene of Savoy-Carignan, etc.

That reminds me..

Which "Art of War" was the OP referring to? Sun Tzu's?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kalent

That reminds me..

Which "Art of War" was the OP referring to? Sun Tzu's?

---

Sun Tzu's version you could read in one day.