is written in the tooltip for swordsman.
1k Swordsman VS 1k Archers
1k Swordsman die; 205 Archers die.
'nuff said
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is written in the tooltip for swordsman.
1k Swordsman VS 1k Archers
1k Swordsman die; 205 Archers die.
'nuff said
You have overlook a key battle mechanic, range. True if the swordsmen are near the archers they could kill them. But the archers start the battle from farther away, so while the swordsmen are getting to them they are picking them off. The dead archers are the result of the swordsmen reaching them however on the way there most of them died.
if archers and ballistas kill everything else with such ease because of range, this can only mean one thing.That they either have to get lower accuracy/damage of archers and range units, or that they need to give more defence/life/speed to melee units. Its pretty obvious, correct me if i am wrong.
ok... wow... for the 1 billionth time lets break this down.
m
100 people (group 1) are standing on one end of a football field (100 yards) and they want to kill 100 people standing at the other end of the football field (group 2).
Group 1 wields swords, group 2 wields bows.
Group 1 can only advance 25 yards per turn.
1st turn - Group 2 attacks immediately since group 1 is in range. 10% (10 people) of group 1 dies in the attack leaving 90 people, yet group 1 makes it to the 75 yard line.
2nd turn - Group 2 attacks immediately but since the range is closer accuracy is improved for this demonstration. Group 1 takes 20% casualties (18 people from group 1 perish leaving 72 people. Group 1 hits the 50 yard line.
3rd turn - Group 2 attacks immediately, increased accuracy yields 30% casualties. 22 casualties are inflicted leaving 50 people from group 1 left. Group 1 stops at the 25 yard line.
4th turn - Group 2 attacks immediately inflicting 60% casualties (its like shooting at the broad side of a barn. 30 of group 1's 50 die leaving 20 people. Group 1 achieves the 1 yard line and kills at 100% efficiency killing 20 of group 2's archers.
5th round - Group 2 obliterates whats left of group 1's army.
Group 1 - 100% casualties
Group 2 - 20% casualties
My math may not be perfect, but you get the idea.
You have to take into account accuracy revision. Its a lot easier to hit somebody at 25 yards then 100.
Thats why they are used as a defensive unit. In a fortified keep, where there are traps, logs, and archer towers to keep enemy archers busy while they advance. You wouldn't send an M1A1 abrams into a field of enemy wielding RPGs by itself.
Hell, even throw an archer and a few other units into the mix and you would of done a lot better that battle.
Wrong!
Moving units do not fight side by side with wall defenses when the gate is open. Moving units go first until all die then wall defenses jump in. If the gate is closed only wall defenses are at work.
Your second point is true. Fighting ranged units with slow moving malee units is a bad idea. Either use Cataphracts which is the fastest or put in a few mixes.
The effectiveness of swordsmans against archers is NOT meant for 1on1 battles.
The OP's point is that we are told swordsmen are effective against archers. They are not effective against archers. Obviously range is WHY they are not effective, but that does not counter his point at all.
I think ideally...
Swordsmen counter archers
Archers counter pikemen
Pikemen counter Calvary and Cataphracts
Calvary and Cataphracts counter swordsmen
Warriors really shouldn't even be a reasonable option for high end warfare. It should be a beginner unit at best.
Of course, this isn't the actual state of the game =(
(Valin ponders weather he should post this after what happened last time)
Archers are not the supreme attack unit people make them out to be. Every unit in the game has a viable and useful counter. Swordsmen are NOT very useful against archers despite what the description says, just like rockfall is not effective against seige. The only thing that matters are the stats of each unit. What counters range. SPEED!!!
******Major Spoiler That No One Ever Notices Despite Battle Reports In The Forums******
How To Defend Yourself Against What 99% Of Players Attack With.
The typical attack force consists of massive amounts of archers with warriors/swords as meat shields. This is considered to be the best attack force because NO ONE builds up the proper counter. Get ready for it....Calvery!!! Battle reports all over the forums support the fact that calvery eats up archers like hay by ignoring eveything else. People don't build them because they suicide themselves agaist abatis. They are not an offensive unit but a defensive one.
Now, bring on the naysayers...
this makes perfect sence
bud i dont like it:P
i mean defencive unit? it spoils the image!:D
A agree that you cant win with just archers, but what i mean is that all you need with them is some force to deley the incoming troops. like if you have 5:1 archers:pikeman all pikeman will die but very few archers will
And that my friends is the answer to the "What is the ultimate army" question. There isn't one(why that idea caused such an outcry in a previous thread, I will never know). No matter what you attack with, the defender can build a force to counter it. No combination of troops is perfect for every situation. Right now, calvery is the best defense against most attacks because most people mass attack with archers. Once people stop using that strategy, and begin mixing it up, calvery won't be an effective defense. This is a strategy game, not an "everyone else is using it so it must be good" game. Develop your own strategies, be original, and don't conform to other peoples methods. Otherwise, you won't last very long in this game.
Not true. Unless the attacker's archery is higher than the defender's horseback ridding, calvery will be in range of the archers in the first round. The pikes will be in range too, but calvery targets archers FIRST. Battle reports in the forums prove this as archers get slaughtered while pikes take no losses.
Fact is swordsman train way faster than archers , you can support more swordsman than archers in 1 town , so the ratio you have given of 1000 vs 1000 is not evened out considering the time it takes to train each unit .
And most battle won't have only a 1vs1 scenario , so what you posted has absolutely no relativity because the chance of something like that happening is low . You would have to be crazy to send archers alone to attack.
The game is about combination .
So what would you use to counter 1 swd, 1 pike, 1 archer, 1 calvary, 99,996 cataphracts?
Well I would use my normal fortification setup of 1-2k abatis, rest AT's, with about 30k or so pikes. Should be enough for a win. Due to catas slower speed, you archers can also stay and fight. More abatis would be better, but most people don't use that many catas so I don't build more.
That's minimum by the way.
I'd hope thats the minimum, I said 99,996 cataphracts... they'd chew through your pikes with barely a loss. 1-2k abatis? I want exact numbers lol. Not to mention somebody with that many cataphracts will most likely have maxed iron working, military tradition, and medicine. An army of cataphracts will deliver more damage than anyone can afford resource wise. Even if you filled all your wall spaces will it be enough?
You have to remember though, that pikes get a damage bonus against calvery, while calvery gets a damage penalty on them. That's what makes pikes really effective against them.
If you really want to kill that many heavy cal, then send one light calvery and heavy calvery. That gives your AT's 2 rounds of free firing before the calvery even starts on the pikes. 10k AT's can chew up any non seige attack with troops supporting them.
I am debating whether or not to share a secret to defense with the community.
it works with offense aswell.....if your facing alot of archers.
"Perhaps it would confuse them if we ran away some more."
Not really; have you ever noticed that it's the cavalry that comes to the rescue in the nick of time? They're not out there leading the charge; they're there when you need help!
you must be very careful when sharing your experience...the next day it may not work, lol.