INTEL/ATT HERO - effect on att/def

HERO INTEL

I have seen a few threads on this forum about how a heroes intel stats give a boost to effective life points, thus boosting defence...i wasnt too sure about this but better minds than my own said it was so.
I have run a few tests with an alliance member from SS3 (Erme)....this is what we found.

~ All attacks took place in valleys..using a two different defending heroes with the same att level, but one with low intel and the other with higher intel.

~ The attacking hero used was the same each time....with an att level around (not exact) the same as the defending hero (within 10-15 points).

~ Both accounts have all techs maxed out.


Heroes used

Name -----ATT---INTEL----POL

Lowint---- 125-----8-----41

Highint--- 125-----49-----35

110ATT--- 110-----46-----40

Test 1: Archer/layers vs Archer/layers

Low intel (defend)
http://i48.tinypic.com/2e68wtk.jpg

Test 1 pt2

High intel (defend)
http://i50.tinypic.com/5wzhix.jpg

As we can see..with the higher intel hero defending 1 less troop was killed, this dont seem so great...but remember the intel of the hero used is not high enough to give maximum benefit to the archers...to get the maximum boost requires higher intel level?


Test 2: Cavalry vs swords

Low intel (defend)
http://i48.tinypic.com/2aj6sfq.jpg

Test 2 pt2

High intel (defend)
http://i47.tinypic.com/smsmsg.jpg

Again we see that with higher intel...less swords were killed...scale these numbers up into the thousands and thats not bad.


Test 3: Archers/layers vs swords

Low intel (defend)
http://i49.tinypic.com/i2koow.jpg

Test 3 pt2

High intel (defend)
http://i49.tinypic.com/hs2e5j.jpg

Now we see things got interesting...alot more swords survive under the higher intel hero...i think this is because the maximum level of intel that effects the swords is 50?...and the hero here had 49 (also tried after adding another point to raise to 50...effect was the same)

Im not 100% sure but i think there is a differnce between 49/50...it just didnt effect how many died...but perhaps the overall life of the swords that are left at the end of the round when using the 50 intel would be higher???


Attacking with higher intel heroes

After we had finished that round of tests, i wished to see if the intel boost came into effect when youre attacking.

Low intel (attack)
http://i49.tinypic.com/2hs80eq.jpg

High intel (attack)
http://i48.tinypic.com/4uhxsn.jpg

Again i believe the effect here isnt great because the intel is too low to really help the archers...but it does have effect all the same.
It does show that intel helps when attacking also.

What did i learn from this...well for starters, all the guys such as thieryd/Naems etc on the forum are correct (sorry for being skeptical)

And most of all...when hero hunting...look for a low level hero with high att and over 50 intel

Hope this helped some...if anyone here spots any mistakes ive made...pease point them out.

P.S~ If my spelling and grammar sucks...it is late here....and i am no english teacher.:rofl:

Hmm well i think you should add higher numbers (of both army sides), and try comparing it to attack heroes before making quick assumptions. either then that good job?

What I think is important is to state the positive effects of intelligence in battle, vs. a higher attack. My main attack hero has 66 intel. I've read that 50 intel is good to have as it can provide a defensive boost against swordsman, or something to that effect. However, the next defensive boost specific to a unit is so high that it would be a waste increasing my intelligence further, to the detriment of the attack. I also read that the respective advantage of intel compared to attack, to an attacking hero, is approximately 1:10. So why add a point to intel, instead of a point to attack which has 10x the effect. So before advising people to increase their intel stat, I'd investigate the respective advantage of 1 point to attack vs 1 point to intel. An interesting post though for sure. Thanks for the work, and for sharing.

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Originally Posted by DCJerboa

What I think is important is to state the positive effects of intelligence in battle, vs. a higher attack. My main attack hero has 66 intel. I've read that 50 intel is good to have as it can provide a defensive boost against swordsman, or something to that effect. However, the next defensive boost specific to a unit is so high that it would be a waste increasing my intelligence further, to the detriment of the attack. I also read that the respective advantage of intel compared to attack, to an attacking hero, is approximately 1:10. So why add a point to intel, instead of a point to attack which has 10x the effect. So before advising people to increase their intel stat, I'd investigate the respective advantage of 1 point to attack vs 1 point to intel. An interesting post though for sure. Thanks for the work, and for sharing.

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Well when you have 1000 attack and only 40 intellegence, you may want to put some pts in int. Attack overkill lets say may be a waste. This also should be a consideration, when you are deciding which hero to use to defend or attack and not where to put the attribute pts. :p

DcJerboa, yeah i agree...i would not water down my main attack hero to add points to intel...true also that is shouldnt advise people to...i will edit that now.

But i do think that having points on intel can be an advantage at certain times...like you say 50 for swords...would help someone in defence that keeps mass swords?...and maybe when using a compact defence?

Maybe should of said...when hero hunting..find heroes with base intel over 50?

Thnx for your replies

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Originally Posted by DCJerboa

I've read that 50 intel is good to have as it can provide a defensive boost against swordsman, or something to that effect. However, the next defensive boost specific to a unit is so high that it would be a waste increasing my intelligence further, to the detriment of the attack.

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I thought this also..that intel had to be a specific level to effect each unit....say 50 for swords...184? for pikes....but after seeing the above reports...49 intel had effect on archers...not a great one but still it did effect things.
These numbers 50/184 i believe are the capped limits..when higher intel will no longer help the unit...but any added intel below the cap limit will help some?..as seen with the archers and swords using the 49 intel hero.

But DCJ correct...att matters far more...taking the enemy troops life away faster is more useful.....but if u can find heroes with the high intel/att....it may just be worth it....every little helps.

well i just found a hero with base 65 attack and intel and am now planning on training it.... i wonder how much intell could possibly affect the amount of archers lost on a level 10? could be something else to test.

Here's something I was about to add to another thread but here seems a good place too.

Chart comparing the benefits of adding 1, 10 and 100 points to Attack and Intelligence, Int column shows gain in effective life.

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/9349/compare.png

Notes: The starting point is 50 Intelligence. The more Intelligence your hero has the more benefit each point of increase gives him, whereas Attack is always a flat increase.
Techs are assumed to be level 10 which means that both swordsmen and cataphract already have maximum defence. For the curious, increasing Intelligence from 49 to 50 would increase swordsman's effective life by 5.2.
Ranged damage is at 50% effectiveness, double the number to give 100% damage.
* defence has reached maximum, no further benefit.

For future heroes it makes sense to look for one with a better attack and relatively high int but I'm not about to stop taking points away from attack to increase int.

Very interesting stuff.. good work Sshaze.

Cheers velk....lol...didnt take u long to find this thread mate

I pop on here every now and then lol

Birtles, you beauty. I'd put the value of your post in the top 10 posts on these forums.

The RAM increase for intel is shocking. I'm almost tempted to build some and give my intel hero some exercise. ...shocking.

As for attack reaching an effective maximum value... all I know is when I got scouted by a 900+ attack hero, and my hero was only in the 400's at the time... my scouts got annihilated. Despite having over 1/2 million scouts sitting there, the scouting hero meant that more of my scouts were dying than his. not nice.

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Originally Posted by Birtles

Here's something I was about to add to another thread but here seems a good place too.

Chart comparing the benefits of adding 1, 10 and 100 points to Attack and Intelligence, Int column shows gain in effective life.

http://img806.imageshack.us/img806/9349/compare.png

Notes: The starting point is 50 Intelligence. The more Intelligence your hero has the more benefit each point of increase gives him, whereas Attack is always a flat increase.
Techs are assumed to be level 10 which means that both swordsmen and cataphract already have maximum defence. For the curious, increasing Intelligence from 49 to 50 would increase swordsman's effective life by 5.2.
Ranged damage is at 50% effectiveness, double the number to give 100% damage.
* defence has reached maximum, no further benefit.

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So, with 100 int, the rams go to 8394 life? Or is it 150?

The tables use a hero with max techs and 50 Int as a starting point so adding another 100 Int (increasing Int to 150) increases Rams life from 11,029 to 14,423. Use the Age I calculator in my sig to play around with your own heroes.

Just throwing this in here. Using a 500+ atk hero to scout with, I am used to killing over 100k scouts (more than I send) against the average defending hero. However today scouting with 500+ atk against a 276 atk hero with 110 intel... I only killed 92k scouts per mission. The intel was definitely affecting it.

i have a hero that i have put a lot of work into the intel stat.
currently the numbers are lv 350 pol 9 att 346 intel 130.

this hero isn't as useful as i once thought. here is what he's good at.

1.rein alliance members with pike, instead of sword. (165k arch/135k pike)

2.cav smack

3.taking out at's with cav on a closed gate.

4.ram wave. (i haven't built a ram wave yet)

5. it's nice to be able to keep all my pikes/cavs in this city with this hero defending.

6.pike bombing cav (I'm too nervous to do this with such a big hero)

tis bout it.

npc10 hits do not have lower losses with this hero. if anything, they are higher.

re: 50 intel score for swords. i find that it helps a lot to send a 50 intel hero along with my swords when defending an allies city from archer rainbows.

and lastly, here is a big hit with that hero; http://www.evonyurl.com/yhudi9

in hindsight, i think my 2nd best attack hero would have been better.

Intell heroes have their uses, most of your examples are the wrong way to use them

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Originally Posted by red 83

1.rein alliance members with pike, instead of sword. (165k arch/135k pike)
can't speak for this one without knowing the incoming and your allies heroes

2.cav smack
cav attacks are all about doing maximum damage in the first round when they're (hopefully) layered from archer damage by layers - attack is better

3.taking out at's with cav on a closed gate.
if there's no traps etc then you are best killing the ATs in the first 3 rounds when they're protected by scout & archer layers and attacking first in round 3 - the ATs shouldn't be hitting your cavalry

4.ram wave. (i haven't built a ram wave yet)
agree

5. it's nice to be able to keep all my pikes/cavs in this city with this hero defending.
again, can't comment without knowing what's incoming

6.pike bombing cav (I'm too nervous to do this with such a big hero)
If it's not at max range and there's enough defending archers to kill your pike in round one, then attack is important here not intel, if it's at max range then archers are better for the job.

tis bout it.

npc10 hits do not have lower losses with this hero. if anything, they are higher.

re: 50 intel score for swords. i find that it helps a lot to send a 50 intel hero along with my swords when defending an allies city from archer rainbows.

and lastly, here is a big hit with that hero; http://www.evonyurl.com/yhudi9

in hindsight, i think my 2nd best attack hero would have been better.

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As for level 10s here's what I said in another thread,

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Originally Posted by Gringo

Intelligence hardly effects level 10s, trap damage is unaffected by it and the warriors shouldn't be reaching your archers. so the only real damage the archers suffer is just one round of fire from the Archer Towers and a 100 extra intelligence will mean something like only 70 less deaths. So don't use high Int heroes if it means that the warriors are going to reach your archers.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Gringo

Intell heroes have their uses, most of your examples are the wrong way to use them

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thank you for your comments.

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1. can't speak for this one without knowing the incoming and your allies heroes

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I can't ever see what is incoming to an alliance member, unless they are on. Of course the rein could be adjusted to what's incoming then. This defends well against scout bombs, and archer rainbows; the most common attacks that i see on my server.

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2.cav attacks are all about doing maximum damage in the first round when they're (hopefully) layered from archer damage by layers - attack is better

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You are right here, I guess. Unless they pop up a trap/abatis on you. But you're pretty much screwed then anyway, if you haven't camped a bunch of spam to hit right before.

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3. if there's no traps etc then you are best killing the ATs in the first 3 rounds when they're protected by scout & archer layers and attacking first in round 3 - the ATs shouldn't be hitting your cavalry

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You're right.

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5. again, can't comment without knowing what's incoming

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I meant just in general. As in when I'm offline. The pikes are used instead of sword as a meat shield (This gives a bit lower food bill). And this at least give the cavs more life, they suck at defense no matter what it seems.

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5. If it's not at max range and there's enough defending archers to kill your pike in round one, then attack is important here not intel, if it's at max range then archers are better for the job.

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You are correct again here. But i do like to use pike bombs to take out cav despite the fact that archers work just as well/better. I tend to keep more foot troops than arch in my cities in general, so i like to save my arch for farming if possible. Pike bombing is amusing to me. Pikes march a bit faster, and I like to see if my opponent moved his horse out or not before my main attack waves get there. But noted that i should be using the attack stat. thanks.

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Originally Posted by red 83

I can't ever see what is incoming to an alliance member, unless they are on. Of course the rein could be adjusted to what's incoming then

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just one thing worth mentioning, if your alliance member is offline you won't know if his Feasting Hall is full or not, and may have your reinforcements bounced back. Personally I'd only reinforce someone who's offline if there was a predictable pattern to the attacks, for example 6 x 5000 cav hits, then same again every 12 minutes, otherwise not worth the risk of having the enemy scout and change tactics to deal with your reinforcements.

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Originally Posted by Gringo

just one thing worth mentioning, if your alliance member is offline you won't know if his Feasting Hall is full or not, and may have your reinforcements bounced back. Personally I'd only reinforce someone who's offline if there was a predictable pattern to the attacks, for example 6 x 5000 cav hits, then same again every 12 minutes, otherwise not worth the risk of having the enemy scout and change tactics to deal with your reinforcements.

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Yeah, i know what you mean. Those waves i suggested only fills three slots (i assume you were referring to the embassy). With swords/archers, i generally need four. The rest can be filled with scouts, and i can see how many slots there are by sending a lot of scout waves first, and then recall what i need to just before my main waves get there. I use a phract wave this way too for speed, but recall them before they get pike bombed to death, and when my swords get there. Sometimes my other alliance members get there before i do, with ineffective reinforcements. I hate it when that happens.

I always reinforce if i can, and hopefully get there before my peeps ballista are taken out. even if the enemy spams out the 5k setters, then im still good if there is at least one ballista. I still haven't found anyone that wishes to chew through all my meat soldiers, but they are welcome to do so if they wish.