Example of compact defence + reports

Hey. I have been thinking of going compact for weeks now and I decided to just do it. Then I decided to test how strong it would be to have and what it would take to kill.

The numbers are all 100x smaller than theya re supposed to be; both for attacker and defender (except for AT I didn't want to break down; those didnt matter anything at all though in these tests since it was for cav)

NOTE: I didnt heal during the attacks; pretended to be offline. Also moved all my scout out.

Start with:
350 worker
3.1k warrior
160 pike
2.2k sword
1.8k arch
580 cav
40 phract
3.2k balls (should have been 320 but in this case didnt make a difference)
x rams
x pults
15.6K AT
50 logs

Now I hear people say that compact defence is vulnerable to cav. So we tried ''cav smacks''. Very tiny ones, just to see what would be hit, how much etc. NOTE: the attackers hero's are low. I dont except someone sending their best hero but it IS possibly they kill 2x more if they send a real good hero.

Battle report links:
http://battle131.evony.com/default.h...07ef9ab8e5.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/5d/97/5d97eafac5661e9dda423355b52f47b8.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/34/52/3452b8de2ea3c8da8927b943496a9056.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/84/00/84008c806ba4b3c1f0fed8d02e84e189.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/05/48/0548401d226ef8456e89319bec387712.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/7b/02/7b025998a2563f31847805199db29096.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/d0/3e/d03e015945fc74dc4e01f5721201c378.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/e8/1d/e81dcb091fa598c670129897c9c0d2ca.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/36/d5/36d5a0f7e2efbd613e16fffe005064fa.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/bb/1d/bb1d8895c16138effa852ff048516675.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/8d/51/8d5124a8bd3a025e147b43add1925066.xml
battle131.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100629/02/b5/02b5a6cbc6388edfce13326b0e5a9040.xml

Screenshots (work now):
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/6084/20976543.png
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/5562/16938202.png
http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/2130/54044756.png
http://img517.imageshack.us/img517/3639/13863215.png
http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/3731/24199092.png
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/6919/47878541.png
http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/9628/55929476.png
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/6828/97524757.png
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/3462/51374584.png
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/1359/85810392.png
http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/778/68218442.png



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As you can see, even with all my layers cleared, the cav couldnt reach my archer. This means that with catapults setting range, you (should be/) are invulnerable to cav smacks on your archers (I know something isn't right here but ok..)
So lets assume the last cav wave took out my archers + balls

Lets work out the losses:
I lose:
35k worker
300k warrior
220k sword
17k pike
55k cav
4k phract
180k archer
32.5k ball
x ram/pult

Attacker lost:
1.2m cav

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Now I know it is possible to layer the attacks better. But just look at this. Isnt compact defence beautiful if you look at it this way?

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Still has to be tested:
taking out compact defence with archers
(I assume this would take about 1.1m archer, not tested yet)

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Just wanted to share this with ya'll. Cheers

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No Im not going to do this with actual numbers and waste my troops. You can do that yourself.

That is awesome Sir MAthjis i run a compact def in my farming cities.. but i have never been tested.. thanx for posting your test results! and if you get to testing with archers please post !

Nice example! I think the reason the cav did nothing to your archers was at such a small scale the ATs wiped them. Had it been 99k cav and 1k scouts I'm sure they would have hit something. Someone that wants to take the time doing each round can correct me if I'm wrong lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Selular

Nice example! I think the reason the cav did nothing to your archers was at such a small scale the ATs wiped them. Had it been 99k cav and 1k scouts I'm sure they would have hit something. Someone that wants to take the time doing each round can correct me if I'm wrong lol

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Yeah I suppose that is true howver I think movement goes before attacks. Im not completely sure yet but Im very close to understanding all the mechanics.

agreed the ATs need to be down scaled to have the test be completely accurate

ATs don't fire in first turn and battle lasted 1 round so ATs did nothing.

one thing to be aware of is a smart attacker will layer his attacks accounting for the compact def.

if you're going against a compact def you really should send the following with your cav :

1 archer
1 ball
1 ram
1 cata.

This makes the attack take a lot longer and that is why you need to be close to break a compact defense...

Aildiin Shouldn't you send 1 scout along? Their high speed makes them a high priority target, even though they don't move, correct?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by WolfgangMA

Aildiin Shouldn't you send 1 scout along? Their high speed makes them a high priority target, even though they don't move, correct?

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yes you have to send 1 scout too.

I think attacking scout moves, it's only defending scout that doesn't right ? (I don't really remember, I took a 2 months break from evony and came back recently to restart in age 2).

the 1 archer/cat/ram/ball are there to keep the ATs and archers busy. ( they will prioritize ranged units over your cav ).

Biggest issue of a compact defense is that you can deconstruct it if you know exactly what the layers are. ( you actually want to attack with pikes and swords the first few waves).

Biggest edge is that there really is no reason to have more than 300-400k archers in it as your archers will not be trading fire with anyone so as long as you can one shot anything that comes in range, more archers won't help as they are not getting killed a little at a time every round. What is more important is the strength of the layers in front of the archers as those will be taking damage every wave...
Personally I like the concept but I would only use it if I had enough swords so that they represent a bigger attack group than the archers.
This way you get a real strong compact defense that can not be scout bombed, best of both worlds ....

It's not a bad defense if you have mass cav and phracts too ( would hate to loose them to some random schmuck launching a couple archers wave at a non compact defense...). That's the biggest issue with cav and phract, they can rock the offense but if people know you have them, it's easy and cheap for them to come destroy them in your keep at low cost...( keeping them in compact defense makes it more costly for an offender to destroy them).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Aildiin

I think attacking scout moves, it's only defending scout that doesn't right ? (I don't really remember, I took a 2 months break from evony and came back recently to restart in age 2).

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According to the battle mechs I've read up on, they'll move when they're the last attacking units left on the field.

In a compact defense scenario, however, it's kind of a moot point since they don't have to move at all. Even assuming max CD range - catapult - any reasonable archery and wall levels would leave the scout's starting position in range from round 1.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Statman

According to the battle mechs I've read up on, they'll move when they're the last attacking units left on the field.

In a compact defense scenario, however, it's kind of a moot point since they don't have to move at all. Even assuming max CD range - catapult - any reasonable archery and wall levels would leave the scout's starting position in range from round 1.

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That is correct, I remember now.

I'm not an expert just bringing up a thought. Wouldn't the size of troops in this example matter, cause you scaled down everything by 100. Reason i say this is that when i was scouting someone the other day who had 500k scouts, i killed 60k every hit up until he got down to around 150k and then i killed 80k. Same Hero's, less units. Food for thought.

This is great!!! Thanks for posting

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Firefoxxx

I'm not an expert just bringing up a thought. Wouldn't the size of troops in this example matter, cause you scaled down everything by 100. Reason i say this is that when i was scouting someone the other day who had 500k scouts, i killed 60k every hit up until he got down to around 150k and then i killed 80k. Same Hero's, less units. Food for thought.

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Im not sure what you are trying to say - nothing about scouts here.
If you mean the less units present the more you kill - yes that is true. You can also see that in the reports (first hit on wars kills 1.5k, second kills remaining 1.6k). So I dont really get where you are going. Could you rephrase your question?

i guess where im going is that this can't be 'super accurate' cause its not at the scale that a compact defense would be at. looks like this would tell more or less what layers you hit, and not how many you would kill. but like i said im not an expert im just adding comment

this scale isnt accurate.....Heroes play a way bigger role, try sending = to larger hero. IF your gonna use cav smacks, u just fill their FH and use bigger heroes.