Science has been astounding us for years and now the true possibility exists for us to actually clone ourselves. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? What would this do to our society if we allow it?
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Science has been astounding us for years and now the true possibility exists for us to actually clone ourselves. Is this a good thing or a bad thing? What would this do to our society if we allow it?
This reminds me of the Asgard...
Why not...? There are so many practical reasons to justify cloning.
We should not allow it. I have one word for you: Eugenics.
However, it will happen.
Human cloning is an inevitability. The only question is if it will happen in this century, or if it laws can stave it off. There will never be 100% agreement between all countries on any cloning laws. There will be some haven, somewhere, that will allow a home to scientists that wish to clone humans. It's going to happen.
lol yea... stargate is the **** i dont think we are at that level of cloning yet lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Skirata
I don't even like identical twins, they just creep me out.
Does not support.
Overpopulation is your only answer.
Full human cloning: no
Besides the obvious overpopulation issues, and knowing that some nazi somewhere will try to use cloning to populate the world with whatever he sees as the 'perfect race', there's also the issue of what would happen if cloning technology got into the wrong hands. Instead of building one-use nukes or chemical weapons in basements, what if terrorists start cloning themselves? Or tyrannical governments? Clones wouldn't carry the thoughts or memories of their template, so they would be a blank slate for ANYONE to 'program' with whatever ideas they want.
Partial human cloning (i.e., of individual organs): yes, if we can keep it from getting out of hand.
Many medical conditions could be solved if we were able to simply clone the affected organ when the symptoms first show, then remove and replace it when the new clone replacement is mature. Plus it would be helpful for all kinds of biomedical studies to have human pieces to experiment on instead of animals. (we could just use prisoners for that, but whatever...)
THinks Rota wil find home of scientists and try to take over the world;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
Cloning is a little impractical, because you'd have to take the sample for the clone at birth. If you want to clone your grandfather, and he's on his deathbed, the clone will be to since the DNA will have been deteriorated. Also, overpopulation is already an issue, why make it worse trying to make copies of yourself?
hmm i believe it should be done because if we clone someone and use them in an army (I know it's star wars all over again) but then it would save many people from dying when you have programed them do fight fer your country. And also wouldn't it be cool to have a clone to do all your homework or go to school for you?
No way thats weird unless you can control the clone and tell it what to do
Anyone here read House of the Scorpion? In it this guy makes a bunch of clones, and uses them for "spare parts" to stave off death. Because he controls his own small country, rather than destroy their minds like most governments decree, he raises them like sons before taking a heart, or brain cells, or a liver, or... whatever. I'm not saying this is an argument against cloning completely, but it's something that definitely should be taken into account as the practice gone wrong...
i read that book :D its awesome lol and yes thats probably what clones would be used for to start with i dont think we need copies of ourselves :P i only have one evony acount and im not sharing xD
Well, if you happen to be a religious person, think about the implications that cloning would have. If you believe that all humans have souls, would the clones too have souls? or would they have no hope? If you believe in an afterlife, would this apply to clones too? Just because they are clones, doesn't mean that they are not still HUMANS. I cannot justifiably say that human cloning is acceptable by my standards, even though i can see the advantage of being able to have an organ that would always work for you, and allow you to survive. Has anyone read the republic commando series? i think that is a prime example of how people would treat clones. It is about the Clone army of the Republic (Starwars.). It follows the story of a squad of republic commandos, and is a really good read. But it also tells of how the clones have the same emotions as normal human beings, and how they are ostracized from society, even though they are the only reason their society is still intact as war rages on.
Well, I'm not very religious, but I don't think I'd see any reason not to treat clones as people... If anything, not being religious makes that a whole lot easier, because from mypoint of view, they're all coming from basically the same place, and scientifically, nothing should have changed just because the cells didn't grow in another person...
I am just going to say two words.
Genetic diversity.
Bree, I understand where you are coming from, but i was just pointing out my reasoning as to why people should not clone other people...
Rodri, i dont think the OP meant that clones would rule the world. But i do love your sig....
If their were a second Hitler, would you really want him growing an army of perfect Aryans genetically modified (which is only a small step from cloning) to be perfect soldiers? For that matter, would you want ANYONE, enemy or not, to have that capability?Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
And no, it wouldn't be cool to have a clone go to school and do homework for you, because we have enough stupid people in the world as it is.
I've read a few of them. Great books, shows the Star Wars universe, and specifically the Clone Wars, from a whole different perspective. Actually better then the video game they were based on, as great as it was.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Lei
More to the point, that is a perfect example of exactly why full human cloning shouldn't be legal. Hell, just watch the movies. You'll get the idea.
Thanks for supporting me armbarchris. I actually need to go and get the newest one....i think its like the 501st something or another....i have read all of them through Order 66.
Righto even if Hitler or a second Hitler or whatever (just to clear the point he was a complete buffoon and an :modedit::modedit::modedit::modedit: ok?) and they were able to build an army of the so called "perfect race" they would still fail simply because all the other nations would team up on him (e.g the Allies) and the war would wipe them out, but what i really want to know is why does everyone reference Hitler I mean c'mon theres gotta be another evil doer out there like maybe stalin or mussolini or kim jong ill (however its spelt). and so actually what you are saying is that you want others to die instead of those who are ''born" fer that purpose like I know my purpose in life is to join the military now would you want me to die instead of a clone who cannot think fer itself. (p.s. no I'm not an idiot I'm actually a 'b' grade student but i would rather be on these forums then at school, wouldn't you rather someone to do your work instead of you?)Quote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
Hey, hold on, not to advocate Nazism or anything, but Hitler was actually a pretty intelligent guy in many respects... He's to be hated because he misapplied that brilliance. After all, a complte buffoon could never have managed to manipulate a country so well like that... Not to mention take over France and almost succeed in doing same with Russia...
Wow, Digger, you are thinking EXACTLY like i said people would think. If you create an army of clones, then people will think that they are expendable, yet if they are humans, then how can you say that human life is expendable?Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
Also, I beg to differ on Hitler being a Buffoon and a :modedit::modedit::modedit::modedit::modedit::mode dit: Due to the fact that yes, he may have be one of the foulest people ver to step foot upon this planet, but surely one must recognize his tactical prowess as a general! He was one of the most brilliant minds in regards to the war he fought until he decided he wanted complete and total world domination. He convinced two of the most powerful nations at the time, (Japan and Italy) to join him in his great conquest. The Blitzkreig was a brilliant tactic, and the reason he was bale to cover so much territory in such a small amount of time. In doing so, this actually prolonged the war due to the fact that the Allied Forces had to regain such a cast amount of territory in order to be victorious. Also, Japan controlled almost the entire Pacific, and With Germany and Italy Controlling almost all of Europe, you cannot deny that he was a brilliant tactician, albeit insane, but brilliant nonetheless.
no he got elected in any idiot can do that (george w. bush) and his GENERALS did the fighting and planningQuote:
Originally Posted by Bree Fletcher
Ok Tai he didnt do it it was his generals like Paulus and Rommel and Himmler and his advisers who told him what to do he did bugger allthough i will give him credit fer one entire battle Th Battle of the Bulge the encirclement of the 6th army which caused 90000 men to die in camps in Russia was because Hitler ordered no man to retreat or to break out but to hold his ground. Genius no.
No. He had High command. Anyone like hitler would not let his generals do all the work. Hitler may have had Generals who commanded his army, yes. But Hitler was the mastermind behind all of Aryan society and the idea of a 'perfect human.' Also, Hitler was the one that organized the Holocaust, as well as gave the commands to the generals to execute. Hitler was the mastermind, never forget.
Someone is angry at democracy...Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
I don't see why everyone is so against cloning. You can use it to help fight disease and most importantly fight wars.
Picture millions of clones, conditioned during childhood for combat, in the air, seas, and on ground. Genetically designed to be super human. Limitless in number. They would be more important than nuclear weapons.
Wars would no longer involve civilians. No draft. No innocents slaughtered. Clones in the end would be tools.
Hitler got elected in? Technically yes, but in reality? It was an inch short of hostile takeover.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
WRONG! (yes I know this is degenerating but I shall continue) this is were you guys think you know but you don't Tai holocaust and the final solution was Himmler, planning done by high command and he approved of what ones were fought. Idea of the 'perfect race' again not him it was a common belief that came out of the mid 19th century that it was stated as a sub group of the Caucasian (white) race. jeez what do they teach you guys??Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Lei
p.s. Skirata i agree with you in everything about angry at democracy I love it it's what gives me a say.
and Bree Hindenburg gave it to him yes that's right Hindenburg handed over the chancellorship to Hitler.
Thus making him not relly elected. Anyway, there's no law that says bad people have to be stupid, Digger. Live with the fact that we can learn much from evil.
jeez I'm sayin that this aticular bad person was a buffoon he made very very idiotic mistakes e.g invading Greece before he Invaded Russia , Unrestricted submarine warfare and a no-retreat policy. Some so called 'bad people e.g Lenin or Stalin changed a country and made it better Russia gained much more wealth and more people ate decently plus they upgraded their transport networks.
But that's the same as saying that clones will have no emotions, no capacity to think for themselves, no will ... not human, when in fact they will be essentially as human as we are, and to use them in such a way as you described is insensitive and inhuman. We'll be no worse off than if we actually sent our loved ones to battle to die. >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirata
But clones aren't loved ones. They would never have connection to you. Clones can have their neural processes limited. In the end, they would just be weapons of war.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ravenwings
That was my main reasoning for being agaist clones. If want a clone, you get the whole package. Emotions, thought, everything. What happens when the clone army is sick of endless deployment? You are forced to either a) release them or b) commit mass genocide, just like Srarwars. Clones would be humans too! Its like asking your twin, 'hey, you look just like me so you are going to be used to save me when I'm about to die.' who is going to look after the clone? You people don't understand, they would be humans too! Also, you may say, 'but the fact that they are the perfect organ donors and can save lives!' this is true, but would you not still have to kill someone if you need a heart transplant from your clone? The clone then dies from heart failure. You end up killing someone anyway, so when is one human life worth more than another human? (in case you cannot tell, I'm pro-life)
I disagree. Clone technology coupled with gene manipulation and mutation could fix that problem. They'd have no sense of individualism. They'd act like ants loyal to a queen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tai-Lei
Boy, this is going fast. I have a bit of catching up to do, it seems...
Ahh yes. No civilians slaughtered. At least, not until one side wins, at which point the superhuman soldiers trained to be perfect soldiers show no mercy to the civilians who stand in the way of whatever their goal is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirata
Read the red text on this one. ^^Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
AS for Hitler:
He came to power legally, technically, but he may as well have had a gun to the Chancellor's head.
Hitler was not a military genius by any standard. He was a political genius who happened to have some of the world's best generals and military scientists working under him. Hitler did make the overall plan, yes, but when it came to the military he had a tendency to listen to generals who told him what he wanted to hear rather than the ones who told him the truth.
Yes, ideas like that were common back then. However, nobody except Hitler and a few of his top brass buddies believed in it firmly enough to try to exterminate several entire ethnic groups: Jews, Poles, Slavs, Gypsies, Blacks...Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
We, meaning humans in general, form bonds with mentally disabled people easily enough. Mentally, some of those people arn't that much different from what your talking about (which I call a 'clean slate' clone). Are you sure WE wouldn't bond with THEM?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirata
And this doesn't bother you...?Quote:
Originally Posted by Skirata
As I said before, I do not object to partial human cloning, such as of an individual heart or lung or whatever, to fix genetic defects, incurable diseases, and that sort of thing; or for medical research. Full human cloning is where I draw the line.
exactly and what he wanted to hear was that they were winningQuote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
huh what about apartheid?Quote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
Good question: what DOES apartheid have to do with human cloning?Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
We're not talking about 'separation' here, its more like planning to EXTERMINATE more the HALF of the word's population.
Human cloning technology, especially if it could create mentally 'blank' clones, would be a dictator's best friend. Especially one like Hitler: not only would he have an army of genetically enhanced, unquestionably loyal super-soldiers, but he could create his perfect Aryan race while he's at it.
Frankly, I'm not too happy about ANY government having that kind of technology, regardless of who it is. And in private hands it would be even worse.
your twisting my words and you know it what i was asking was huh what about apartheid as you saidQuote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
what about apartheid there they tried to exterminate the blacks to suppress them, and believe it or not the English and Aussies dare I say it tried to breed out the Aboriginals so it wasn't only Hitler many people did it heck even your confederates did.Quote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
The point I'm tryin to make is.. Humans are desgined to fight each other weather it be on a battlefield or over the internet we will fight its impossible fer somewere in the earth for someone not to be fighting or suppressing or killing or bullying it is just not going to happen we need clones because they could protect us help us and say if i had a clone and i died in an accident yet my clone didnt at least my parents and loved ones would still have a me sorta...
I don't know, I haven't fought anyone for ages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters
As it turns out, racial purity is a myth and is in fact counter productive to advancing the human race genetically. Scientists have looked at DNA from all over the world and guess what? We are all descended from one small group of human beings and so there are no different races, just regional variations.
Now let's talk about genetic diversity.
Nothing beats hybrid vigour. Look at purebred dogs. They are often prone to genetic deformities and other health problems that the average mongrel will never experience. This is due to breeding from too small a selection of suitable parents which means too small a gene pool, so genetic weaknesses become magnified as there is a lack of variation.
What has this got to do with cloning?
Cloning means reducing the genetic variation even further, as instead of mixing the genes of two parents, you are now simply repeating the genetic patterns of a single individual. Any small flaws in the DNA coding can quickly become major genetic flaws in these circumstances and your so-called super race could soon become a race of cripples, halfwits or disease prone weakies.
Hitler was not just a madman, he was also a total fool. As was/is anyone who thought/thinks he had a good idea with all this super race nonsense.
Don't get in the way then.Quote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
But you would never come into contact with them. Any bond would be superficial.Quote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
Why would it? Everything has a purpose. Clones themselves would need one.Quote:
Originally Posted by armbarchris
He was insane, not stupid. Big difference. His overinflated ego, and his pride, along with his mental disorder were a big factor in a lot of his decisions. Hitler wasn't elected, and even though chancellorship was basically handed to him, he had to manipulate a lot of people for it to happen. The fact that he had so many supporters didn't help matters either. Hitler also never let any general have power to do anything. Hitler made all the decisions during the war. If the generals had the power to call the shots, D-Day would've ended up a lot differently than it did.Quote:
Originally Posted by Digger Walters