Was it Justified to initiate World War II over the Polish Crisis?

I'd like to hear your thoughts.


Discuss away, fellow scholars. Keep it clean, though.

I think France and The United Kingdom became terrified of the size and power of the new Nazi Germany.

Yes I think it was justified because you can't just take over a country for some more lebensraum.

Yes because the holocaust was a horrendous ordeal. Would you live with yourself knowing thousands of women and children were slaughtered at the hands of fascism?

Ah, but that was never Hitler's intention. Hitler wanted a Jew-free state, but it was Heydrich and Goering in 1942 at Wannsee that convinced Hitler to begin extermination.

And also, Danzig was part of Germany in 1914, and the Allies obviously viewed Czechoslovakia and Austria as justified, so why the big fuss over Poland?

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Originally Posted by Professor X

Yes because the holocaust was a horrendous ordeal. Would you live with yourself knowing thousands of women and children were slaughtered at the hands of fascism?

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The fact is, people at the time really didn't believe that any kind of "slaughtering" was going on. Look at it from their point of view; they just thought that a country was trying to take territory and become powerful like countries hve done uncountable times in the past.

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Originally Posted by Richie_B

Yes I think it was justified because you can't just take over a country for some more lebensraum.

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The people of Austria and most of Czechoslovakia already spoke German and who of the same ethnicity. Parts of Poland both spoke German and were parts of the German Empire before WWI.

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Originally Posted by Professor X

Yes because the holocaust was a horrendous ordeal. Would you live with yourself knowing thousands of women and children were slaughtered at the hands of fascism?

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The Holocaust hadn't even begun yet. Concentration Camps were originally invented by the BRITISH during the Second Boer War.

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I had read a BBC History magazine that suggests that WWII was avoidable.

Hitler had broken the Versailles Treaty a number of different ways; they should have have gone to war a lot earlier. But being right on the heels of WWI, they didn't want another war and tried "appeasement" in hopes that Hitler would be content with Rhineland, Czechoslovakia and Austria. As anyone whose ever had their lunch money taken away at school knows, appeasement NEVER work; but by the time the Allies realized this Hitler had already built up his power enough to pose a significant threat.
Nobody knew about the Holocaust until pretty much after the war was over except those few who were actually involved in it (and the victims, of course). So that would not have been a factor.

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Originally Posted by King Dylan

I think France and The United Kingdom became terrified of the size and power of the new Nazi Germany.

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France is afraid of EVERYTHING.

No the war was inevitable the fact that the Polish fought back bravely (although stupidly e.g cavalry charged tanks armed with lances) made it so, England and France also signed a pact with the Poles that in the event of Poland being invaded the British and French would come to their rescue.

I am not sure what made UK and France attack Germany when they entered Poland, but I know why Hitler entered Poland in the first place. And I also wonder why they reacted so strongly on Germany but no the Soviet.

Anyways, Hitler entered Poland because of the German citizen in Poland was mocked and murdered. He wanted to save them, and I have read some places that he never intended to attack France, and later the UK.

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Originally Posted by LaoOmologo

[...]He wanted to save them, and I have read some places that he never intended to attack France, and later the UK.

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I don't think he wanted to save him, I think he was doing it to manipulate the people of Germany to like him even more.

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Originally Posted by LaoOmologo

I am not sure what made UK and France attack Germany when they entered Poland, but I know why Hitler entered Poland in the first place. And I also wonder why they reacted so strongly on Germany but no the Soviet.

Anyways, Hitler entered Poland because of the German citizen in Poland was mocked and murdered. He wanted to save them, and I have read some places that he never intended to attack France, and later the UK.

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I have read that the attack on the German radio station was staged yes staged to give him a reason to attack the Poles

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Originally Posted by Digger Walters

I have read that the attack on the German radio station was staged yes staged to give him a reason to attack the Poles

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It was stage by the SS dress as polish troops.

WWII was so secretive that we can't really get answers to many things. WWII was planned very carefully before it had even begun.

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Ah, but that was never Hitler's intention. Hitler wanted a Jew-free state, but it was Heydrich and Goering in 1942 at Wannsee that convinced Hitler to begin extermination.

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We don't actually know if Hitler actually issued the order to eliminate the Jews, but it was way before 1942 that he was convinced that they needed to be eradicated. His time in prison with Jewish prison guards who mocked him made him hate them, and his belief in the commonly held (at the time in Germany post-1918) theory of the "stab in the back" which attributed the blame to everyone but the Germans made him detest them even further.

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And also, Danzig was part of Germany in 1914, and the Allies obviously viewed Czechoslovakia and Austria as justified, so why the big fuss over Poland?

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There was a big fuss over Poland because Britain and France after failing in their appeasement strategy over previous issues decided to finally stand their ground with their guarantee of Polish independence. The Germans demanded Danzig and the Polish refused to comply, so the Germans invaded Poland upon which Britain and France reacted accordingly in line with their promise.

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No the war was inevitable the fact that the Polish fought back bravely (although stupidly e.g cavalry charged tanks armed with lances) made it so, England and France also signed a pact with the Poles that in the event of Poland being invaded the British and French would come to their rescue.

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Myth. Absolute myth. If I recall correctly there were Polish cavalrymen galloping, while tanks were approaching parallel to them upon which they got machine-gunned. Firstly, the myth is absolute BS. Secondly, the Polish actually had (at the time) fairly modern weaponry. Their 7-TP tank was perfectly on par with the German armour and inflicted losses on the German tank formations, and IIRC they made use of a number of imported British weaponry like 25-pounders and 2-pound anti-tank guns which were put to good use.

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I am not sure what made UK and France attack Germany when they entered Poland, but I know why Hitler entered Poland in the first place. And I also wonder why they reacted so strongly on Germany but no the Soviet.

Anyways, Hitler entered Poland because of the German citizen in Poland was mocked and murdered. He wanted to save them, and I have read some places that he never intended to attack France, and later the UK.

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No they weren't. He entered Poland because he wanted his strip of Danzig and was willing to take it with force. He felt that once more Britain and France would back down and he took his chances and failed. The Allies didn't react so strongly to the Soviet Union however, because they had nothing to gain by going to war with them since Eastern Europe was completely out of their sphere of influence, and the fact that they would be a useful country to manipulate against Germany in the future.

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I don't think he wanted to save him, I think he was doing it to manipulate the people of Germany to like him even more.

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This. There seems a strong sense of German apologism in this thread too.

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I have read that the attack on the German radio station was staged yes staged to give him a reason to attack the Poles

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IIRC they simply rounded up a few Poles, gave them Polish uniforms and shot them around the radio station to give the impression of a pre-emptive strike by Poland, and therefore somehow justifying a German counteroffensive.

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WWII was so secretive that we can't really get answers to many things. WWII was planned very carefully before it had even begun.

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Actually there are massive amounts of evidence available for both sides, and due to time passing by the archives of each nations are gradually becoming more declassified, since by now all people involved would be dead.

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Originally Posted by King Dylan

WWII was so secretive that we can't really get answers to many things. WWII was planned very carefully before it had even begun.

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Let me guess: the Illuminati? Oh, and I suppose the Pope is in on it too.

ALL wars are secretive when they happen, at least they were until Watergate when journalists became the unscrupulous, invasive :modedit:s they are today. The leaders didn't tell people what they were planning so the enemy wouldn't find out; it's standard wartime practice and has been since, well, ever.

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Originally Posted by armbarchris

Let me guess: the Illuminati? Oh, and I suppose the Pope is in on it too.

ALL wars are secretive when they happen, at least they were until Watergate when journalists became the unscrupulous, invasive :modedit:s they are today. The leaders didn't tell people what they were planning so the enemy wouldn't find out; it's standard wartime practice and has been since, well, ever.

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Haha, nice.

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Originally Posted by Digger Walters

No the war was inevitable the fact that the Polish fought back bravely (although stupidly e.g cavalry charged tanks armed with lances) made it so, England and France also signed a pact with the Poles that in the event of Poland being invaded the British and French would come to their rescue.

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Yes, but why did we sign the pact? If we hadn't signed it, then Hitler would've attacked Communism at it's heart and although Europe would be ruled by Nazi Germany, Hitler wouldn't have exterminated the Jews (only deported them) and WWII would have been avoided. Of course, Hitler intended for the Slavs and Russians to be used as slaves, so there's a stumbling block there.

Hitler never wanted a second war against the UK. He viewed Britain as the epitome of the white man's expertise in empire-building, and he dreamed of the overseas empires of the French, British, Belgians and Dutch co-existing with the juggernaut of Nazi Germany.

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Yes, but why did we sign the pact?

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To curb German expansion throughout Europe. Attempting to appease them with Austria and Czechoslovakia hadn't worked, so rather than letting them pounce on another country, a pact was signed with Poland which hemmed Germany in to what territories they currently held.

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If we hadn't signed it, then Hitler would've attacked Communism at it's heart and although Europe would be ruled by Nazi Germany,

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I think a Nazi-ruled Europe is enough of a deterrent to be honest. Corruption was rampant, the racially-driven policies were (to be blunt) retarded and there was practically nothing to gain for the "non-Aryans".

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Hitler wouldn't have exterminated the Jews (only deported them) and WWII would have been avoided.

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Of course he would have exterminated Jews. They were considered the problem and he wanted to eradicate them, just how he attempted to exterminate all disabled people prior to WW2. I also fail to see how "only deportation" is acceptable in your eyes, and it was precisely these, among Hitler's other policies so as to why the world united against the Axis to fight such massive injustice like Nazism.

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Of course, Hitler intended for the Slavs and Russians to be used as slaves, so there's a stumbling block there.

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I think you're belittling the whole concept of slavery.

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Hitler never wanted a second war against the UK. He viewed Britain as the epitome of the white man's expertise in empire-building, and he dreamed of the overseas empires of the French, British, Belgians and Dutch co-existing with the juggernaut of Nazi Germany.

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He would have only accepted that if it fitted within his plans at the time. The moment France, Britain, Belgium and Dutch became more of a liability, he would have simply conquered them. It's a bit like with the Waffen-SS. First the requirements for it were extremely tight, but by the end of the war practically anybody was being allowed in to it, of all nationalities, ethnicities and religions.

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Originally Posted by armbarchris

Hitler had broken the Versailles Treaty a number of different ways; they should have have gone to war a lot earlier. But being right on the heels of WWI, they didn't want another war and tried "appeasement" in hopes that Hitler would be content with Rhineland, Czechoslovakia and Austria. As anyone whose ever had their lunch money taken away at school knows, appeasement NEVER work; but by the time the Allies realized this Hitler had already built up his power enough to pose a significant threat.
Nobody knew about the Holocaust until pretty much after the war was over except those few who were actually involved in it (and the victims, of course). So that would not have been a factor.



France is afraid of EVERYTHING.

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the treaty of versailles was higly unfair and is directly responsible for WW2.

A week before the invasion of Poland, Germany and Russian signed a pact agreeing not only not to attack each other or to interfere if one was attacked, but dividing up huge chunks of Europe between the two countries. It was called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Curiously enough, the whole week following the signing of this pact was witness to a series of incidents, supposedly done by the Polish, against ethnic Germans and was declared by the Germans to be a systematic attempt at ethnic cleansing.

The incident at the radio station you speak of was testified to at length during the Nuremburg trials after the war. The testimony was delivered by the soldier who had been the leader of a group of Germans sent to that radio station. The day before, they had arrested a Polish man and they brought him with them to the radio station. All were dressed in Polish uniforms. At the station, they murdered the prisoner by lethal injection then shot him to make him look as though he died in the attack. They broadcast an anti-German message and then left.

Other incidents were also staged throughout Poland, making it look as though the Poles were openly attacking their German residents. This gave Germany the excuse it needed to drive in and "protect" their people. The reason it sparked declarations of war had to do with a few things.

1) There were numerous reliable reports that Polish soldier who died in the radio station attack had been taken into custody by the Germans the day before. So how did he appear there? Germany had no answer except silence.
2) The same sort of incidents against Germans were being repeated on the eastern side of the country, only these were against Russians. Amazingly, Russian rolled its own army onto foreign soil to "rescue and protect" their own people at the same time Germany did from the other end.
3) The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was not exactly secret. It was meant to be so, but archives released in later years showed that both British MI6 and the CIA had knowledge of the pact through their intelligence sources within the Reich. It is presumed, because of the status of espionage at the time, that the French and others had access to the same information.

I believe that France saw the writing on the wall and knew that they were next in line for this treatment if they didn't act first. Other countries fell in line after various other incidents.

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Originally Posted by FoxyBunny

A week before the invasion of Poland, Germany and Russian signed a pact agreeing not only not to attack each other or to interfere if one was attacked, but dividing up huge chunks of Europe between the two countries. It was called the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact.

Curiously enough, the whole week following the signing of this pact was witness to a series of incidents, supposedly done by the Polish, against ethnic Germans and was declared by the Germans to be a systematic attempt at ethnic cleansing.

The incident at the radio station you speak of was testified to at length during the Nuremburg trials after the war. The testimony was delivered by the soldier who had been the leader of a group of Germans sent to that radio station. The day before, they had arrested a Polish man and they brought him with them to the radio station. All were dressed in Polish uniforms. At the station, they murdered the prisoner by lethal injection then shot him to make him look as though he died in the attack. They broadcast an anti-German message and then left.

Other incidents were also staged throughout Poland, making it look as though the Poles were openly attacking their German residents. This gave Germany the excuse it needed to drive in and "protect" their people. The reason it sparked declarations of war had to do with a few things.

1) There were numerous reliable reports that Polish soldier who died in the radio station attack had been taken into custody by the Germans the day before. So how did he appear there? Germany had no answer except silence.
2) The same sort of incidents against Germans were being repeated on the eastern side of the country, only these were against Russians. Amazingly, Russian rolled its own army onto foreign soil to "rescue and protect" their own people at the same time Germany did from the other end.
3) The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was not exactly secret. It was meant to be so, but archives released in later years showed that both British MI6 and the CIA had knowledge of the pact through their intelligence sources within the Reich. It is presumed, because of the status of espionage at the time, that the French and others had access to the same information.

I believe that France saw the writing on the wall and knew that they were next in line for this treatment if they didn't act first. Other countries fell in line after various other incidents.

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That is so true Foxy. Both the German and Russian divided Poland. However some truth were told but not all.

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Originally Posted by Digger Walters

I have read that the attack on the German radio station was staged yes staged to give him a reason to attack the Poles

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I have heard of that, but that was NOT the stuff I meant. The Germans in East Prussia was given hostile actions from the Poles BEFORE HITLER GOT THE POWER!! Ok? That is the stuff I am trying to explain. If you can find a way that is staged, or a lie, I'd like to hear it. (THIS IS READ FROM MULTIPLE SITES AND BOOKS, usually banned books though)

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Originally Posted by LaoOmologo

I have heard of that, but that was NOT the stuff I meant. The Germans in East Prussia was given hostile actions from the Poles BEFORE HITLER GOT THE POWER!! Ok? That is the stuff I am trying to explain. If you can find a way that is staged, or a lie, I'd like to hear it. (THIS IS READ FROM MULTIPLE SITES AND BOOKS, usually banned books though)

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East Prussia was part of Germany in during world war 1. Poland seek their country afterward and the polish get part of germany. There were always fighting between the poles and germans over land.

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Originally Posted by KwokYuen

East Prussia was part of Germany in during world war 1. Poland seek their country afterward and the polish get part of germany. There were always fighting between the poles and germans over land.

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... Yes I know that. I mean the German people living in that region.