Yup , and no more link to my simple guide :( I'm hurt.
I normally use lv100 heroes for my 150k warriors bombs seems to be fine, does a lot better then 100k, I could test the difference in 125k but positive the 125k would do better.
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Done and done. Thank you TC!
Moderator monkeh approves of your praise! :D
Just sharing my Lv14 experience to the pool of knowledge, especially in the initial cavalry and Archers phase.
For my first Lv14 capture I reduce the number of Cavalry to around 110k with warbombing. The followup war+sword layered 155k archers with a 650+ attk HH failed to achieve Archers Tradefire. After killing all the remaining cavalry, they went on to shot at Swordsman.
For my 2nd Lv14 breaking, I just opted for the simple method of clearing all cavalry with warbombs following with 1 wave of 187k Naked Archers to kill the 147k archers. One of my member manged to kill all the Archers with 156k Naked Archers using 700+ attk HH.
For my third Lv14 breaking, I tried to achieve the Archer's Tradefire again. This time I had 94k cavalry remaining. With a 650+attk HH and a war+sword Layered 182,500 Archers, I failed again to achieve this elusive Archers' Trade fire.
Btw, it seems my kill rate on Cavalry is way off from yours. With a Lv100+HH, 125k warriors killed about 18k cavalry. 150k killed about 22k cavalry. Using the ratio of 6.8 warriors to 1 cavalary, I can get pretty close number of Cavalry.
My kill rate for a Lv16 seems to be around that ratio too. Killing 677,777 cavalry would take 30 waves of 150k warriors! LOL.. oh well...
Btw Jujim the Reason your not getting trade fire is because you are killing to much cavalry and your clearing them in 2 waves instead of 3 :) With a 600 Atk Hero sending 182k Archer wave only Need like 5 150k warrior bombs using just like normal lv100 heroes.
Spawn: Check PMs mate.
Thanks Spawn. Note that for my next Lv14 breaking.
Yeah figuring out the exact warriors for trade fire takes some time and messing around, you need about 675 attack clear all the archers in one wave.
But you got the right idea with using warriors to wear down the cavalry this is pretty much part of the big secret people use to Break 14+ down Cheaper, the rest of it is using Warriors to Kill well Warriors, and Swords of course, heh, sounds lil crazy but when you drafting millions daily it cuts down losses massively on historic cities
In regards to taking one with Ballista. Due to a waar situation and wanting to draft an interloper we took a 12 by them, but had to do so with ballista. Basically everything in the guide is correct save add in 2-3 more breaker waves to clean it out. Definately more costly, but doable.
3 of us particpated in the initial assault (2 of the others using their historicals) farthest player was 4 hours & 20 minutes out. Was quite a job setting all the trap spam warrior waves from various cities using heros of various levels. Lot of camp time usage. The one thing to watch out for also is if you have the 1% buff. That throws your timing off some and made 2 waves land early out of sequence (probably wound up wasting 1-2 waves because of that).
One comments in regard to taking a level 14 (or 16+) where there is a significant amount of archers. Would it not at this point be prudent to use a wave of Cav/Phracts to knock them down vs sending archers against a superior number of same?
Similary in the initial stages when you are stirpping the Cav, would a Pike wave accomplish this as well or better than archer wave, or mixed pike/archer wave?
Satan, you are wrong to say that. You ONLY need to have two of the four basic infantry group as layers to get the needed Archers Tradefire when you are able to 3-Round the cavalry. So any 2 of workers, swordsman, Pikeman and warriors will do the job. The third is still fine coz they will be 1 shot by Archers in the last rounds without affecting the movement of each group. In a way the 3rd is not doing anything thing. However if it is a full layered with all 4 groups, then the enemy archers will stay behind to shoot the 4th group of infantry thus disrupted the movement. Trust me.
Last night I test out Spawn's suggestion. And it went perfectly. Thank Sapwn you are the MAN! With 175,781 cav left after 5x150k Warbomb using Lv100 heroes, I achieved that Tradefire with my 187,500 War/Sword Layered Archers. AND you are right about the Attk too. I did it with the 669 Attk Saladin (Int 91, Leadership 281) and I left with 3,203 Archers. So I did not fully killl the Archers but I guess 3k archers would not affect much since the next few waves will hit within th next few seconds.
I should have throw in some warriros after that Archers waves to learn about kill rate of warriors on swordman and warriros. Any drop of hint how is the kill rate of these warriors during the swordsman and warriors phase?
With Spawn's method, I saved 9x150k warriors which I think can be used for the swordsman/warriors phase. But I think Archers might be more effective in mopping up the swordsman and using warriors solely for warriors phase. Then I just need to mop up with my mech army. If so, I will have less than 400k archers loss on Lv14. LOL
This could give an indication:
battleall1.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100810/60/5c/605c5bc4891f4bedd0e54ce13087bf4b.xml
battleall1.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20100810/b3/fd/b3fd7635a0c39fd54473e4d090679531.xml
I cleared a lot of warriors with warriors also, but no reports on those and forgot to scout.
Just took a stab in the dark there, lol. Didn't really think about it, just saw warriors real quick and thought maybe that's the reason. But yeah, what happened is that you 2-shotted the Cavs which of course makes it so you do not achieve tradefire.
:rofl: Warriors to kill Rams. That's funny. Me and Spawn discussed the Warrior spam thing a while ago when theorizing how to take a lv 16.
@DaveV
The fun part of this is to achieve the Elusive Tradefire. Nothing more. :P
There are number of things can go wrong when one tried to get the right number of Cavalry killed. I once encountered such an incident. I was helping to break a Lv12's cav/swd/ram. Just sent my standard 2 waves to break it. However the Lv12 capper is excited with his 1st Lv12 that he sent his loyalty run waves 2 mins earlier than I told him too. It killed enough of cavalry that my 1st wave failed to kill those archers, leaving then to kill some good number of my mech wave.
But heck, that is always the fun of it. Else everything will be so boring....
Capped my first level 12 HC tonight, thanks all to helped me and thank you to Satan for writing this guide, and woldere and spawn who helped me learn things as well and the rest of you all.
I send a naked archer wave to hit 20 secs after my first wave (80k enough for lvl 12's). If first wave killed archers I recall the naked wave. If not, I let it hit. Even if you don't recall it it's not a big deal because you're just less effective then a wave with layers, but not absurdly so.
Naked archers against the swordmen are at 45-50% of the damage output of the optimal wave. Against the warriors, it doesn't matter much.
I like camp timed scouts with a safety wave a lot though, and just recall when it's not needed.
he just mean camp timing a scout ahead of the safety wave to see if tradefire occured
Well I guess for 12s you'll always get a report when u kill cav, tradefire archers and kill some swordmen. No need for a scout then.
That's worst thing about Higher Lv Historic Cities you have a lot more attacks and scouting between each one just doesn't happen , especially when your attacks are only 1-3seconds apart
I still like to scout just to see what is happening. It makes me feel better as the attack progresses. For example, hearing "cav" cleared and "archers" cleared when hitting the 16 was a complete relief to my ears.
Heh our guys are really good with came time so we normally have the things go down within 30-60seconds so fitting in scouts can be hard.
Was a bit hard for me to scout during my 16 takeover, I had 90 attacks outgoing lol XD (hidden brag alert!)
You can usually analyze the attacks by XP gained also, but scouting is indeed very important. If you can, you always should scout.
Just did another lv14. This time sending some 18 waves of 125k warriors during the warriors phase.
With a Lv100 normal hero (300 attk), 125k warriros kill about 30k warriors
With a Lv100+ HH (480+ attk), 125k warriors killed about 40k warriors.
The ratio is about 10 waves of 125k warriors to 1 wave of Fully Layered 125k Archers.
:(
Just edited to put your LV 14 Map Spawn :rofl:
It sounds like a lot Jujim, but once you have like 2 weeks with multiply 14s your looking at warrior counts in the double digit millions with no real use besides farming and scout bomb defence, so when your drafting 2million a day a 3:1 Kill Rate seems pretty good, With better attack the kill ratio is even better as well.
:)
Going for my first 14 in a week or so.
Will have ~2 mil archers, ~500k+ warriors (have a 12), a 600 atk, 245 leadership HH, ~550 atk,, 225 leadership HH, and 7 ~420 normal level 100 heroes.
Gonna probably send my first 5 spears with my best heroes from ensigned waves from the 12 (only 5 miles south of the 14 so I'll rein them to the other city once their attacks are finished) and then camp time the other attacks from the loy spamming city 1 tile away. With luck, 5 156k archer bombs should be hitting with 4-5 125k archer bombs all at the same time. I'm going for broke on this more or less using Spawn's simple guide, and I can only hope that the report I receive after all that is a good one (doesn't have to be broken necessarily, but the cav/archers better be dead and the warriors almost so!
Nice info Jujim. 10:1 war:arc sounds pretty good to me.
Maybe I'll try an all-warriors takeover of a LVL12 =D. Should be possible from a LVL16, using INT gear for clearing the D.archers.
I was actually thinking about this earlier today. I think they're right about the archers though. The archers will stop and the warriors will pass them. Granted, 42k archers won't completely destroy 200k warriors in one-shot, but by the time the warriors meet, you might not have many left. Add in a 100k arch wave to clear the arch and do the rest with warriors though.
With 500+ INT and 200K warriors, you should easily get to the archers, but of course clearing those with archers would be a lot easier.