Gonna post one of these per week.
If we have to take a drug test to get a job, shouldn't people on welfare have to?
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Gonna post one of these per week.
If we have to take a drug test to get a job, shouldn't people on welfare have to?
Interesting thought.
I do not want to make stereotypes but I think they would sue the government and say they have no right to do that.
However, since it is taxpayer's money it would be nice to only give to respectable people who do not do anything illegal.
We don't have to take drug tests for work. Most companies have drug-free policies, and test. But, it's not a federally mandated policy that EVERY company must enforce. If drug testing for employment was government mandated, then you might have an argument about mandating a test for anyone receiving government funding.
But, drug testing policies are created by the private companies. A lot of mom and pop companies have no drug testing. Truly "small business" companies rarely test because of the cost. Obviously, paraphernalia shops don't test their employees.
No matter where you work, you cannot take drugs, because it's illegal. But, enforcing the anti-drug laws are not the responsibility of companies. They are not obligated to test.
Hmm...that would be a really tough call for a taxpayer. Normally, the companies that do the drug testing either make you pay for them, or pay for them out of their own funds. Imagine the squawking over who would pay for all of those tests for the welfare people. Would you happily have your taxes raised to pay for them? :)
You wouldn't need to raise taxes. All of the people on welfare that test positive are kicked out, and they use those funds to test more people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallbreeze
Only in a perfect world, where the inflow of people who are in need of welfare was low enough, would that work. Then again, I might be wrong. Economics was never a strong suit of mine. I'm not seeing it work that easily, though.Quote:
Originally Posted by jorbaud
No they shouldn't. A civilized society is one that takes care of its weakest people.Quote:
Originally Posted by NateLove-N1
Well said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Boleslav
They are called "social justice" programs for a reason. Not everyone can pick themselves up by their bootstraps. There are plenty victims of circumstance in the world.
I am very conflicted on this subject.
On one hand, I like the idea of welfare recipients receiving drug tests and would hope that it would eliminate those who are abusing the system. On the other hand, I know there are ways to beat a drug test so I am not sure the benefits outweigh the costs.
And it would cost...
Plus many drug addicts are addicts because there is an underlying condition in which they are self-medicating. Many bipolars smoke weed for example because it calms them during a spike.
I think there are better ways to get people to stop abusing the system, like time limits and annual interviews. It is just too easy to get benefits in my opinion. There should be more to it than showing income.
Honestly, I think this country should be run like a business, with the tax payer as the stock holder and the government working to maximize the investment. That profit should be used to better the lives of everyone. We could sure take better care of our own if we stopped trying to take care of everyone else in the world.
BTW, I love the idea of a serious conversation here. I hope peeps are mature enough to do it without fighting. Been on many forums both secular and religious, and oh boy can it get hot.
Lisa
Why should we enable their addictions?
Its not enablement of an addiction if you don't implement drug testing.Quote:
Originally Posted by NateLove-N1
Companies should not be allowed to drug test employees unless an issue arises such as a workplace injury or there is a reasonable suspicion that an employee may be under the affects of drugs or alchohol. The fact that they are allowed to be so intrusive into an individual's private life these days just shows how weak worker's rights are now.
As long as I show up for work on time each day and perform my duties as an employee well, what buisness is it of the boss to question what I do in my own time? An employer rents my skills for as many hours as is agreed between us. He does not own me!
As for drug testing welfare recipients, I cannot say how much this idea disgusts me. What has happened to us that we are losing our humanity so rapidly? There is a phrase that springs to mind; there, but for the grace of God, go I. You can take out the word God and replace it with whatever suits your own personal belief system, good fortune would do. It's about having some empathy. Drug abuse is usually a symptom of some other underlying phsycological trauma or problems which the victim is trying to self-medicate with illegal substances. Would you punish a person who developed a serious physical illness and cast them out of society? Oh wait, that used to happen to victims of AIDS, didn't it? (and probably still does in some places)
Get over the greed. Your tax dollars? Think yourself fortunate that you are in a position to be able to pay taxes.
Because it can affect the quality of your work and the safety of you and those around you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodri
Why are tax laws so complex?
Why are taxes so unfair to you?
Why are laws so unfair to you?
Why are tax dollars not spent how you want them spent?
Why do things exist that do not benefit you?
I want to introduce you all to a concept you may or may not be aware of.
A veil of ignorance.
Imagine you are an unborn child. You do not know who your parent(s) will be. You do not know if you will have any disabilities or health problems. You do not know what social strata you will be born into. You do not know how much money your family will have. You have NO IDEA what your sex, race, nationality, or individual tastes will be. You know NOTHING about what your life will be like.
Now write a tax law that will be fair to you.
Now create social programs that will be fair to you.
Now create infrastructure that will be fair to you.
Welcome to government. :devil:
A flat tax. No matter what income you have you pay the same %. If you make/spend less you pay the same % but less money.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
You get job training and 5 year of welfare unless there are certain circumstances that would prohibit you from getting a job or a decent job.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
By infrastructure do you mean houses and cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
Those seem the fairest no matter what type life you have.
A flat tax? Seriously?
Go look up "progressive tax" on google and all the reasons it exists. I don't have the time to re-write the billions of reasons a flat tax is a FAIL system. I see the attraction to it, for its simplicity. But, that simplicity is only attractive to the young and inexperienced. Once you get into high school and college ages, you will understand the reasons behind a progressive tax a lot more.
I have a masters degree and no job. Training doesn't solve anything if you don't create jobs. The government can't force employers to hire people. Training is not a solution, it's only about 20% of the solution to getting people off welfare. How do you get them the rest of the way?
Infrastructure are things like utility lines and roads and and the Federal departments that regulate things like food inspection, air traffic, broadcasting the airwaves. Infrastructure is all the things government creates to connect our society. It can be tangible like a road, or intangible like the FCC.
Greed? I think not. I want my tax dollars put towards cancer research, the development of more sustainable energies, and solving the worlds major food problems...I highly value the life of a starving African over an abusing junkie.
BTW - The flat tax is fail system, however look at it from the high incomes point of view. My family makes a huge amount of dough per year, and we are taxed way more. We live in New Brunswick, and the new government has just stopped the tax reductions of the top earners in my province. I agree that in capitalism the rich must help the poor, and I am not rejecting this. Hell the construction worker who sweat for 12 hours a day for 9 dollars an hour works alot harder for their money that any of the top earners in NB, however the amount of taxation going on is extreme.
Actually it can be state mandated. FOr alot of county and state job's you have to take a drug test.
I was referring to private sector jobs. The state can mandate drug tests for jobs that require state certifications. But, the state can't force a run-of-the-mill company like a restaurant or retail store to institute drug testing as part of the hiring process.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moghedien
The state can mandate drug testing for government jobs, because the state is the one doing the hiring. ;)
There was a state which tried it and it was found to be unconstitutional, I think. Let me see if I can find a link.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moghedien
http://www.drugpolicy.org/news/press...e/pr031605.cfm
Lisa