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I voted for my beloved philosopher Plato of Athens.
One cannot forget the creative and philosophical genius of Plato as evident in his tetralogy of Euthyphro, Apology, Crito and Phaedo and in the dialogues of Symposium, Meno, The Republic, Timaeus, Menexenus, On Laws, etc.
Your idea of "philosopher" is a little restrained. I'm really tempted to say Terry Pratchett, and not as a joke, either.
So Friedrich Nietzsche is not even one of the options? http://static.partyflock.nl/images/smileys/nopompom.gif
I must honestly say, that I havent looked into all of them enough to pick one.
Hmm... first two posts, and people are already claiming someone or the other should be in the poll who isn't.
Conrad, if you're going to make a poll like this, you should really try accepting nominations first, so people aren't playing into your narrow-minded worldview.
The poll is fine.
I agree. You should also try adding few from a time after the 1600s...
Can't really take my complaint seriously though, as I am a noob on this subject.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bree Fletcher
But a poll in advance could never hurt.
But Now I am wondering, Terry Pratchett? What would be your motivation?
Simple. Nearly all of his works attempt to explain the human conciousness, and how we perceive the world around us.Quote:
Originally Posted by The Luda
-For Appearance and how it effects both th observer and the observed: Maskerade, Going Postal, Making Money
-For an abstraction on the creative forces of belief: Hogfather, Pyramids
-For why and how we contemplate Death: Mort, Reaper Man, et al.
-For an examination of Truth: The Truth
-For the terrors and pitfalls of blind faith and nationalism: Small Gods, Thud!, Jingo, Monstrous Regiment
-For sex (that is, gender, not intercourse): Equal Rites
And most importantly
-For the Story, and it's prevelance in nearly all aspects of the human mind and culture: Witches Abroad, Guards! Guards!, Lords and Ladies, Moving Pictures...
And I've only skimmed the surface. Terry Pratchett is all the more skilled at what he does for being able to couch his works in such a format as he does.
Every single poll with a subject this big is going to exclude many valid nominees. The limit of 10 choices is an encumbrance we must live with. Just make the most apt choice out of the 10. A lot of people will not see the one person they think should win.
A "none of the above" choice is useless since it would dominate all others. Given the choice between 9 nominees and EVERYTHING ELSE, the odds are very good that most people will think the best answer is in the vague "everything else" somewhere.
Polls like this are not the end-all be-all answer to any given question. Just enjoy yourself and pick your favorite answer from the very limited choices. We know vBulletin isn't perfect, but it's the best we got. ;) Let's have some fun with it.
Very good point, and I suppose I'll take your advice. However, I don't see why this can't be the place to debate other possiblities, even if they aren't added to the poll. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Rota
I did add a few post-1600 philosophers such as Charles-Louis de Secondat Montesquieu, Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel. I chose an assortment of ten philosophers who have been instrumental in the development of Occidental philosophy up to the nineteenth century. For example, the Pre-Socratics who were often physicists and biologists studied the composition and the origins of the cosmos such as through the atomic theory of Democritus and Leucippus and the apeiron model of Anaximander or on the composition of corporeal objects or matter such as Thales who deemed the essential essence of all physical objects to be water and Heraclitus of Ephesus who deemed the essence of all things to be fire which represented the perpetual motion and transformations of the cosmos.Quote:
Originally Posted by SickbyDefinition
Socrates was a hierophant of philosophy who brought philosophy down from the heavens or firmament to the realm of men and solely concentrated on the ethical, political, metaphysical and epistemological aspects of philosophy with the crucial subjects of justice, piety, religious devotion, Truth, love, friendship, knowledge, reason, existence and the just state as opposed to the Pre-Socratics who were primarily concerned with determining the creation and origins of the cosmos and the composition of matter.
My world view is multifaceted, complex and far exceeds the mindset of the average person.Quote:
you should really try accepting nominations first, so people aren't playing into your narrow-minded worldview.
My "idea" of a philosopher is the standard concept of a philosopher. A philosopher takes a rational and systematic approach and/or produces a philosophical system that is then applied to concepts and problems that underline the human condition within the philosophical fields of the philosophy of history, aesthetics, ethics, epistemology, metaphysics, political philosophy, etc. Empedocles of Acagras, Xenophon, Epicurus, Zeno of Citium, Heraclitus of Ephesus, Thales, Pythagoras, Diogenes, Anaximander, Anaxagoras, Democritus, Leucippus, etc are examples of Occidental philosophers while Terry Pratchett would not be considered a philosopher. It is your "idea" of a philosopher that is unusual.Quote:
Your idea of "philosopher" is a little restrained.
That's "multifaceted and complex"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski
Look don't knock my ideas just because they aren't yours.
I think I already demonstrated where Pratchett covers nearly all of those.Quote:
Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski
EDIT: Also, I don't deny that my opinion is unusual. In fact, it really is, and yours is usual. Narrow is the norm. Thinking for myself and not adhering to norms? That's me. I'm unusual, and proud of it!
Conrad, do you deny that philosophy is opinion based?
I did not say to end the debate. Of course, the discussions can lament the absence of a worthy nominee. Of course, other potential choices should be discussed in the thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bree Fletcher
But, i have seen a few posts in threads similar to this have proclaimed the poll a failure for not including "blah blah blah" as a choice. I simply felt I needed to say that at some point in one of these threads with MASSIVE choices, yet only 10 can make the cut.
Maybe the most diplomatic thing would have been to do a sampling from other time periods, and different schools of thought. Just my opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
I am voting for Carl Gustave Jung best modern philosopher we have had since Plato imo.:cheer:
... and look at the ten chosen. They fit into Conrad's political philosophical worldview that what matters is classical philosophy and then the Italian Renaissance. This explains why Cicero is on the list and Marx, Derrida, Foucault, and David Hume are absent. It also explains why we need to treat this as just a fun debate instead of something definitive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
I did mention post-Renaissance philosophers: Thomas Hobbes and Rene Descartes belong to the Age of Rationalism/Reason which coincided with the Scientific Revolution, Charles-Louis de Secondat Montesquieu and Jean-Jacques Rousseau belong to the Age of Enlightenment which succeeded the Age of Rationalism while G.W.F Hegel belongs to the movement of German Idealism that arose from the philosophy of Immanuel Kant.
It's still not definitive though, and it's still well within your existing political-philosophical comfort zone. It's your poll, so you get to choose, I just want to highlight to other forum members that philosophy doesn't have to come from these traditions and geographic-historical moments to be valid.
Classical Antiquity:
1. Plato of Athens
http://etc.usf.edu/clipart/1200/1247/Plato_1_md.gif
2. Aristotle of Stagira
http://www.liberal-vision.org/wp-con.../aristotle.jpg
3. Marcus Tullius Cicero
http://the-falcon1.tripod.com/sitebu...ro-20bust3.jpg
Late Antiquity/Early Medieval:
4. Boethius
http://web.carroll.edu/~msmillie/images/boethius.gif
Italian Renaissance:
5. Niccolo Machiavelli
http://www.marxists.org/reference/ar...elli/index.jpg
I'm not really sure there's enough people with a firm knowledge of philosophy for this to really be a productive thread. I know I myself aren't familiar with it either, though i'm hoping to study it at A-level.
The Age of Reason/Age of Rationalism:
6. Thomas Hobbes
http://homepage.newschool.edu/het//p...age/hobbes.jpg
7. Rene Descartes
http://www.lmu.edu/Assets/Academic+A...rtes+stamp.jpg
The Age of Enlightenment:
8. Charles-Louis de Secondat Montesquieu
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_IyV9T_OlUr...ontesquieu.jpg
9. Jean-Jacques Rousseau
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi..._portrait).jpg
German Idealism:
10. Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel
http://www.marxists.org/reference/ar...ages/hegel.jpg
Yeah, that's why I'm not voting. I've never read anything about/by these philosophers. However, unlike your good self, I have no intention to foray into the subject of philosophy. Unless you count Terry Pratchett - I happen to own a copy of "The Wee Free Men". :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Ikeni
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...Mac_Feegle.jpg
Oneof the few hat I haven't read... but I'm sure if you look, you can find about fifty metaphors illustrating complex philisophical thought in that, as well. He said it best by saying that the Discworld is "a lot like our own... but different." Clearly everything he places in that world is intended to bring to light realizations about the real one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Richie_B
"greatest philosopher in the history of philosophy" is the title
next time the title should be "in ancient history" at the very least
without a none of the above choice i can't voteQuote:
Originally Posted by Rota
without the option to vote my interest in the outcome is zero
without interest in the outcome... interest in contributing to the conversation is almost zero
that's my opinion
August Strindberg is shining in his absence
Ancient history? At first glance, at least three are during or after the 17th century...Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaam
Out of the assortment of the ten philosophers provided in this poll, only three are ancient philosophers: Plato of Athens, Aristotle of Stagira and Marcus Tullius Cicero. Boethius [480-525 CE] lived in the transitional phase between Late Antiquity and the Medieval Period, Niccolo Machiavelli lived during the Italian Renaissance while the remaining philosophers lived in the post-Renaissance world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaam
in case you hadn't noticed we are in the 21st centuryQuote:
Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski
if you don't think anything worthwhile has been said on the subject since we harnessed electricity.... we'll have to disagree
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balaam
Yes Niccolo Machiavelli, Thomas Hobbes, Rene Descartes, Charles-Louis de, Secondat Montesquieu, Jean-Jacques Rousseau and Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel were all ancient Roman philosophers.
My vote went to Niccolo Machiavelli and his most famous book, The Prince. The reasons are obvious.
My argument has never been that all those people are ancient, but that all of them fit into this very narrow definition of what a philosopher is, that overlooks a lot of really good thinkers.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Dylan
There are lots of great thinkers, but that does not make them philosophers. A philosopher spends their life in the pursuit of philosophical enlightenment. Einstein was a great thinker, but he's a physicist. Freud was a great thinker, but he was a psychologist. Darwin was a great thinker, but he was a natural historian and geologist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bree Fletcher
Lots of people are great thinkers, and they have had thoughts that can be applied to philosophical discussions. But, I would not call them philosophers. Just be careful not to let your definition of a philosopher get too broad, otherwise you will have to include EVERYONE. And if everyone is a philosopher, then noone might as well be a philosopher.
Terry writes fantasy books, doesn't he? Depends on what you define a "good" thinker as. Some people thought that Hitler was a lovely person, some (many) don't. It all comes down to how your brain works, you may want Plato up there, or you may not. Some people dislike him. It's what you believe, and Conrad picked the 10 most suitable people in his mind. Excluding Saint Augustine. He knows he should be number 1. NUMBER 1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bree Fletcher
Granted, but I could still make a case for broadening the definition presented in this thread slightly. The fact is, there's some people that write philisophical works that are so obvious they might as well have a big red stamp on them proclaiming them so. Then there's some people that address almost the exact same questions, but don't say so in such a blatant manner. The latter is what is being left out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rota
Well, if you address the same questions as any other accepted philosopher in your books, how are you not one? This is what I mean by narrow-minded; your instant assumption is that fiction and philosophy cannot be one and the same. Yes, Discworld has FANTASY written all over it, as oppossed to I R PHILOSOPHIZOR like all those names up top have put on their books. But that's just his way of approaching it from a different angle.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Dylan
Again, I assert that Pratchett is a philosopher for tackling the same questions and problems as any other. I am yet to have someone show me why he doesn't, in fact, do so.
I was pleasantly surprised not to see John Locke on the list, but Thomas Hobbes. If my A.P. European History serves me correctly, those two are opposite forces and thinkers. I know I'm criticizing the poll, not everyone can be on the list, but I'd think if Hobbes should be on the list, then perhaps a logical addition would be Locke and compared their votes as well.
My choices of philosopher within this poll drifts to either Machiavelli or Rousseau. I happen to know a reasonable amount about them compared to the others I know. I only know of 7 of the 10 on the list, so I am qualified to take a vote on who is the best philosopher.
Plato. Though I do not see any asian philosophers on the list.
~John
I picked Machiavelli because thats what Tupac called himself sometimes. Thug life.
great minds think alikeQuote:
Originally Posted by Japengo
ILU <3Quote:
Originally Posted by Japengo
*dies*
Tupac was a great philsopher
the blacker the berry, the sweeter the juice.
genius!