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I tried dropping a colony (down to 99 in one city) and tried to launch a colonization mission. Evony still thinks I have 100 colonies, so maybe it doesn't check until maintenance. If that's the case, maybe there's something that can be done with that. I have a couple ideas I'll try, but it's going to take a while.
I never specified who's city. I was just saying a regular city can be capped.Quote:
Originally Posted by scythe
What was the bit about max cities?
The first problem in this entire method is being colonized in 1 city....no real player(expect JP, since that the way he plays) would accept being colonized, its a good idea, but I couldnt bring myself to be colonized lol, thats a disgrace in my eyes, i rather colonize a player city then cap it since I dont have to be colonize.
lol, ouch King Shii.... I am hurt.Quote:
Originally Posted by King Shii
Hey, playing while colonized is awesome. You can do WAY more damage to an enemy in uprise/supression battles than you could ever do by attacking them head on with wall defenses and range setters to help the defender.
Yet another flaw in age 2's design, especially on a colonize only server...Quote:
Originally Posted by japanpimp
Well, I don't think it is a flaw.Quote:
Originally Posted by Admiral Alucard
I think the real flaw is Age I battle mechanics that are so heavily in favor of defenders. These same mechanics are in Age II as well.
I actually feel guilty defending my cities from attacks because I know the poor player will send 200k+ waves to me and I will lose next to nothing if I build just 1 trap, 1 abatis, 1 DT and have proper layers in my city.
Uprise/supression battles are much more fair. It is troops vs troops and heros vs heros. So of course a defender will lose much more in uprise/supression battles because they do not favor defense so heavily and it is a fair fight.
You keep commenting and critizising the battle mechanics. Even suggesting changes to them
yet i have seen you in several posts earlier admit that you dont fully understand them
.
I don't need to fully understand something in order to critisize it. I just need to apply common sense which all of us have.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domi
Do I need to fully understand monetary policy, federal budget policies, economics, politics and other areas before I critisize the debt/spending of the american government? Does it take a economics professor and life long politician to come to the conclusion that the national debt in america is too high and needs to change? No, it does not. So I am saying that things need to change. Battle mechanics need to change because defense is far too favored. That was not a problem in Age I because players SHOULD have every oportunity to keep their cities. Thus defense is extremely easy. But in Age II that is a problem when it comes to HC's. You don't like me suggesting that HC's be harder to defend because you own Atlantis. But the fact is, once a player takes a HC from the computer they can keep it from rivals for as long as they like with little effort. HC's are supposed to be a tug of war. Not a "once owned always owned until I want to give it up" city. This is not Age I.
Quote:
Originally Posted by japanpimp
are you an evony developer JP? no you are not. so who are you to say what any aspect of the game is meant to be? just because you WANT HCs to be a certain way doesn't mean that that is what they are MEANT to be.
lol, im not insulting you my friend, not at all, me and you have different views on AgeII playing. I rather not play from a colonized position, and I argee with you on fighting a uprise/supression battle.Quote:
Originally Posted by japanpimp
Here is where i disagreeQuote:
Battle mechanics need to change because defense is far too favored.
Why :
Any defense in evony can be taken down with around equal to less units then what is in the defending city(assuming equal hero gear). If the opponent is offline, it strongly favours the "less" part of it. It becomes slightly harder once you reach the 500k+ ballistas 100k+ catapults and several mill archers. Due to an age 2 specific combat mechanic rule defined as "overlay" or "overflow". If your critisizm was put up against this specific rule, i would partly agree with you. It have its positive sides, and negative sides. But it can really screw over horses even at shortrange. But, it only prevents the big phract smacks cleaning millions of ranged units. its still possible at pretty even loss numbers
However. back to topic
If the defender is online , the defender can use knowledge of battle mechanics to make it harder for the attacker. Adjust the range of defense, the defending layers etc. This can make it very hard to win a 1on1 battle when defender is online. But still. Attackers have the advantage of being able to attack in numbers. Sometimes even big numbers. And with the increased speed of heroes in age 2, combined with no insta wall defenses. Its impossible to force a 5.2k range def if you have 3-5 opponents pounding on you from 1-2 mile range. If those attackers know what they are doing, they got you on your knees. If they really know what they are doing, you are in big trouble. Even with the mechanics as they stand today
Why does this spot not occur way too often ?
- Most Players tend to spend most of the the time learning how to build alot of units, but dont really invest alot of time learning how to use them (apparently some just go to forums complaining about changes to mechanics). Speed is key when attacking. You must instantly know what to do next to tear down a strong defense.
- Often alliances avvoid "real" wars. Most servers come down to big dominant alliances where the wars are so one sided and servers are over. And with evony refusing to merge age 2 servers so far, we end up with tons of dead servers. My scenario describes even opponents against each other. But there are not many servers that put out even wars against each other
The best way to defend a city, and especially on Na1-19 (and unfortunally how its done way too often) is to build up alot of inactives in the flats close to your city (or the inactives just dont get deleted. or people port in attacking the city as the last thing they do before they quit), occupying all flats within 5-6 miles. That will give you valuable time to adjust ranges in your defense before. Making it 100 times easier to defend.
If thats the scenario you critisize, i will agree with you. Because in that specific position, i think defending is too easy.
But i belive the solution is not to change the mechanics, but rather implement attack buttons on NA1-19, at least for citys within a certain range of the bigger hcs, so you can attack, takeover, and port out these filler/inactive citys. Moving the fight to a close range battle again. Where i think the mechanics are working fine. Maybe edging the attacker if they can have 3-5 or more people within 1-2 miles. ALso making it possible for the defending player inside the HC, to at least empty the attacking citys of resources. To at least have some sort of "counter" they can attempt to do when getting attacked
As it is right now, they can just start a supression battle on each other. and keep attacking the HC owner, with the hc owner being unable to retaliate in any way
I agree with everything Domi has said above.
That being said, I think the main issue at this point is the inability for HCs, especially high level ones to change hands unless something strange happens. This can be done by simply removing Speech Texts from Facebook.
No, I am a player. Just an average player. I don't need to be a developer to tell you that Evony intended HC's to trade hands between rivals far more often than they do. Do I need to be a Evony developer to tell you that Evony never intended players to abandon all cities and keep the last city as a HC? No. But months and months ago when I raised the issue SEEFA members told me that it is a valid strategy to abandon all but a HC.Quote:
Originally Posted by chiasm
What I find interesting is that you say speed is so important when trying to capture a heavily defended HC. Thus being close to the HC is key for attackers. Like everything needs to happen within minutes. I agree. You know why? Because if you are at the beach/BBQ/school/work/traffic/bus/train/shopping and it will take you 2-3 hours to get to your computer then it is considered an emergency. And in that case a "friend" can login to your account and protect your HC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domi
Speed should not be an issue if players DO NOT account share. EVERYONE has a life and EVERYONE is going to be away from a computer for hours on end.
So being close to the target is not necessary. It is only necessary if you KNOW someone will login and defend the account once an attack starts to break a key HC.
Adding the attack button will not solve anything.
Server merges won't solve anything.
If battle mechanics are just fine for HC's then why do key HC's never trade hands? Why is there no competition among them once they get captured from the computer? Is it battle mechanics? Is is the account sharing? Is it both? I bet that if HC owners were forced to go offline for at least 6 hours a day like a normal real life person should then HC's would trade hands like they were supposed to. HC's should be held by the alliance during those 6 hours by way of embassy reinforcement like Evony intended the game to be played knowing that players would be offline for hours on end doing life stuff.
I have another thought about speed and close range being necessary to take a heavily defended city....
If 10 players with 9 cities each with L9 Rally spot sent 9 waves each to a heavily defended HC that is 810 attack waves.
The waves can be sent with camp time so thay all land within 1 minute.
Problem is march time. Even if the HC has many inactive cities surrounding it the attackers can send their waves from 10 miles away. No problem. There will ALWAYS be plenty of flats and NPCs 5-10 miles away from any HC. A NPC can be captured and ported away to make a new flat.
Now, the problem again is the account sharing.
It will take a while for the attackers troops to march the 10 miles. During that time the Report icon will flash red. If the HC owner is offline, no problem.
But if the account is shared the person online will have plenty of time to react.
Also, if the alliance is watching War Reports and notice the HC gets attacked and is in danger of being broken, then someone can login. Again, it keeps going back to account sharing. Things need to happen so fast at close range so that NOBODY has time to react, not even the account sharer.
I must point out why i say speed is key.
Im saying speed is key because it puts more pressure on the defending player, assuming he is online. giving him less time to adjust his defense and counter the incoming waves.
Like for example hits so fast / often that you force the opponent into a "max 1700 range" defense instead of a 5.2k.
HCs do trade hands,. In the situations where they dont its usually a result of account sharing, walling themselves in, to prevent attackers from attacking from a 1 mile position, making it alot easier to defend. Or weak attackers unable to break the defense because they lack knowledge mechanics ( or defender is better then attacker at mechanics)
.
Adding the attack button will clearly solve the walling in problem, if you can attack and takeover citys and port them out. Getting that important 1 mile attack range that is pretty crucial, especially if you are going in 1on1
Merging will clearly put action into the dead alliances that basicly sit one on several servers atm. Could open up for some epic wars between some very experienced players
Yes, speed and close range is key only if the defender is online.Quote:
Originally Posted by Domi
Yes, if players play honest and do not account share HC's trade hands. But let's be honest here and look at the data. Accross all Age II servers, how many L16's and L18's have been taken by the computer?
~200 L16's?
~10 L18's?
Of those numbers how many L16's and L18's were taken from rivals?
~20 L16's?
0 L18's?
How long does the original owner/alliance remain in control of the L16/18's? 6 months? 1 year?
So if we look at the numbers they will tell us how many high level HC's trade hands between rivals. Very few do. Very very few. Why is that?
If battle mechanics are good enough then what is the reason very few HC's trade hands between rivals?
Because 99.99% of people who play this game think brute force works
Sure, maybe it does against others in those 99.99% but brute force will never worked against that 00.01% that actually know battle mechanics if they are online and have anything resembling and decent army
I don't understand what you mean.Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroAgg06
Brute force is the reason HC's rarely trade hands between rivals?
Or, only elite players who understand battle mechanics (the 0.001%) own the L16 and L18 HC?
I don't undertstand your point....
I'm saying generally the 00.01% of the people who bother to learn the battle mechanics that many of us have openy shared with the community are the same people who own most 16-18.
If others understood those mechanics instead of sending archers layered with workers/wars/scouts/pikes/swords/cav/phrax/rams thinking that the more layers you send = better kill rate, clearing an enemy HC would no longer be so hard
The hard part is not letting someone else log on their account and comfort/text... This is not an HC mechanic problem, it is a account share problem
Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroAgg06
Account sharing is almost 100% impossible to get rid of. I'm sure know that I've said it, either Japanpimp or Neko Lord will go into IP address crap and make a huge wall of text, but I digress.
Something Evony CAN do, is get rid of speech texts. Very simple and would make it very hard to Bashbro your cities.
Comfort still raises loy faster than it can drop
Speeches aren't even needed if someone will always be on
Wow, very...intuitive
Well done and thanks for sharing. Now more people will have to worry about getting city capped, and not only colonized (.:devil:.)
Which is why I'd go further and say don't let Loy slow drop until Loyalty 5. That way you can at least get Loyalty to 5 before anyone can even log onto the account.Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroAgg06
now that is one of the best solutions to the problem i've seen yet!Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan
I do not think that most of the skilled players have the higher level HC's. A big spending dominant alliance caps the HC's and then gives them away to it's members. And often times those members do not have intimate knowledge of battle mechanics. So they just pack them full of troops and keep packing and packing. But perhaps the amount of troops and battle mechanics are not a big of problem as I make them to be. Perhaps if account sharing was stopped then they would trade hands.Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroAgg06
Satan, i never ever suggested IP stuff to stop account sharing. I have only explained how it won't work.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satan
In order to impede account sharing we need to create an environment that takes most advantages away from account sharing and at the same time gives all players equal opportunities to attack and defend. The reason players share accounts is to guard a city 24x7. Well, in order to stop that we need to force all players to go offline for 6 hours per day. They can set a sleep window to happen at any time during the day. The window can be set to happen when they go to work/school/sleep/etc..
While they are "offline" the only things they can do is buy items and view reports and chat. That's it. If their city is under attack then they need a supportive alliance to reinforce their embassy while they are "offline" just as Evony originally intended.
Everyone wants the reward but nobody wants the risk. So force the risk/reward ratio so players cannot get around the risk
biggest problem i have with your sleep window idea is that i give my phone number to a few alliance members to call me if im getting hit hard. They wake me up and i come fight myself. I see nothing wrong with that.
Now if im being hit 24/7 by a coordinated alliance, i WILL have to sleep eventually, but the phone call can at least delay them a bit
but ya, biggest prob is definitely account sharing... catch the person offline, even if he account shares, and camp out a coordinated attack with your alliance at they wont see it hitting until their city is cleaned out
*business meeting starts*Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroAgg06
"So, to get things started I wanted to open with..."
*phone vibrates*
"Um, sorry guys, I need to run. I'll be back in 2 hours as soon as they stop attacking my city..."
"Ok class, let's open our text books to page...."
*phone vibrates*
"I gotta go to the bathroom..."
*2 hours later "bathroom break" still not over*
*3am, phone rings*
"Dude! You are under attack!!"
*player wakes up and fights off attack for next hour*
*player goes back to sleep*
*Phone rings again*
"Dude, you are under attack, again!!!"
*player wakes up again, fight off attack for next hour*
You know, the above scenarios are extremely rare exceptions. I am willing to bet that 99.9% of players would not do that. Rather, they give their account info to someone.
Remember, you can set your sleep window to anytime during the day.
Also keep in mind that everyone would have to set sleep windows as well for various times. So you can indeed get revenge if your alliance did not reinforce you during the window and your city got capped. You can take it back much easier knowing that the new owner will be "offline" for 6 hours too.
Would you be willing to compromise on the idea if you knew it would put a huge dent in account sharing and give you equal opportunity to retaliate?
JP, how did we get to talking about your 6 hour window of death again?
JP, I'm not even saying I would go and defend if I am busy... Just get on evony through my phone hourly to comfort
All I need to do to keep the city
I guess I'm not anyone then, since you yourself have stated I have no life.Quote:
Originally Posted by japanpimp
Yeah, I herd you can play the game from some phones that support flash.Quote:
Originally Posted by AeroAgg06
Have you already forgotten? You live for me. You are my father.Quote:
Originally Posted by acer5200
The "sleep window" is an absolutely stupid idea!!!
I play the game at all times of the day, if there was a sleep window and i got attacked and watched one of my cities being taken whilst not being able to do anything, i would be extremely annoyed. Isn't the idea of the game being 24/7 meaning that if you want you can play 24/7?
If people want to spend hundreds of dollars or thousands on this game whats the point if evony tells them they can't play all the time if they want to?
Account sharing is a problem, but telling people they aren't allowed to play for 6 hours a day will simply not work.
Ok, but can you honestly say thet you do not sleep at least 6 straight hours and that you login to the game every 1-2 hours 24x7? Don't MOST people sleep 6-8 hours? Work 6-8 hours? School 6-8 hours?Quote:
Originally Posted by DjTazzy
If you usually sleep between 1am and 7am no problem, right? And if you want to set your window from 10am-4pm you can do that too.
Remember, you are not "standing by to watch your city get taken". If you were sleeping how would you know? A friend calls you to say you are under attack? So you wake up at 3am, then 5am then 7am? Basically stay up all night? Then the attackers keep hitting you between 1am and 8am your time everyday. What will you do? Never sleep??
Once the enemy knows your time zone they WILL capture your city UNLESS you account share.
and we all know that acc sharing is just another part of some peeps game jp ' dont worry about it just concentrate on our own game styles bro and dont let certain individuals try to bother you .... :rofl:Quote:
Originally Posted by japanpimp
Although I disagree with JPs method, I completley agree that this account sharing is a major problem. To say to ignore the cheaters that make city capture impossible is more ridiculous than a sleep window
NO. If they know that to hit you due to your cities defences being hard enough to break IF they caught you offline they'd know that your strong as hell Alliance would Back you every step of the way rotating troops in and out to keep it full at All times including layers they wouldn't hit as they'd fail before startingQuote:
Originally Posted by japanpimp
If they knew you played 18 hours a day which many Players DO PLAY for then sure there is a 6 hour window.... But who is to say that 1 day they haven't got attacks going that go past X time so they stay up for it? Or who's to say they don't go get some sleep early? Or who's to say that Like ME and many MANY others they don't give out mobile numbers so any sign of Attack someone can call them so they can get online and defend
And Since you are on this subject I will tell you a little story about one of the best ageI Players I ever played with
Was my Host on 34. Host of UNHINGED
For 3 days straight they hit him.... And when I say Hit I mean Archer waves, Pike waves, Bally waves, Ram waves, Cav waves, Phract waves, Scout bombs and cav spams FOR 3 DAYS STRAIGHT
anytime he needed sleep he told us that he was out. He'd leave his gates open and we would have reo's in his cities and we would..... ( Here ya go JP Something new for you who has no skill or GOOD Alliance to back you ) We'd constantly check our troops as we would include scouts in 1 wave. He'd have a few mil scouts per city so as soon as he was scouted 1 of us would notice and we would contact him to let him know another serious mech wave was possibly heading at him.... And you know something. HE DID get up and log in
How do I know? CAUSE I WAS ON SKYPE WITH HIM asking what reo's he wanted and where to defend against the 30 or so Full Cav / Phract waves heading at his cities.... The 2-4 FULL ram waves or the dosen's of Bally bombs
And I'll give ya a clue
I wasn't online 24 / 7... Most days........ Most day's I'd sneak a few hours sleep in between farming waves.
BUT Then again during a big war I'd be up for 3 day's straight organising defenses and killing reds and when I slept while The Misses was doing her games on fb or anything on the pc She'd keep my game minimized so she could keep an eye on enemy movements and reports
Anything came in and I was instantly at the pc
Sometimes the best thing is to know no one will touch you cause they are scared and they ALL know no matter how much they bot and account sit they can never beat you
But with your 6 hour lock out you are giving the royal FU to those who don't cheat more than you are to others
JP. If you want to take other peoples cities or set them up for someone else to take grow a set and play the game and take a capturable city yourself
Quit your whining like a little 3 year old kid who finds out the game is not what he wanted
Either that or just go back to farmville cause I hear that no matter how much you spend in farmville you can't loose anything and everyone wins :D
after All JP isn't that what you are always preaching? FAIRNESS?
Then go grab a HC and RISK loosing something yourself cause until you have to something to loose as well then ya just a big whiny coward who wants to hide and maon and complain
In fact...............
Don't
Don't want to hear how it is so unfair how everyone on the server will then Attack you non stop until you loose or quit because they don't like you :(
Sorry but please don't EVER take a capturable as no one will ever hear the end of it
BUT Do shut The Hell up about it as you lack the skill to break any city that is decently defended so it will be a joke if anyone logged in to defend against you instead of just sending a text or calling the person under Attack to laugh and cry at All the honor they now have to ditch..... AGAIN
1. dont need to skip so many lines GE
2. are you guys talking about something else or am i missing something?
i wish i could remember the last time i slept 6 - 8 hours.
as for work/school. i like most folks have breaks every few hours, depending on where i'm working from i have access to evony while i work. any other time i'm away from home i can access evony on my phone as well.
i have chosen to make evony a part of my life, and part of that choice involved me arranging my life so that i can be connected any time 24/7 and having spent money on devices that make it possible for me to be connected when not at my computer. if evony tried to tell me that i would be forced to not be able to connect at any time i wish i'd me p*ssed enough to quit.
nice, not really worth the effort lol
blargh. This thread sure got hijacked.
I still haven't been able to figure out how to cap a normal, red flagged city on a Colonize only server. I'm about ready to give up.