Japanpimp Battle Reports

Here is the round by round movements. Since right now I haven't confirmed the way leadership works (give us a hint un3x!!), and I don't know whether any other rules come into play, such as the case where a hero's effective attack is halved for some reason (I don't know why this happens at all, though I see evidence for it, and it was pointed out to me by Gringo in my Excalibur thread) I chose not to calculate damage done per round. Because of this, some units might have had different targets, especially in Round 3.


R0:
D. Scouts 0
D. Cavs 0
A. Cavs 1700
A. Phacts 1700
D. Pikes 0
A. Pikes 1700
D. Swords 0
A. Swords 1700
D. Warriors 0
D. Workers 0
A. Rams 1700

D. Archers 0 -> full battlefield
A. Archers 1700 -> full battlefield
D. Ballista 0 -> full battlefield
A. Ballista 1700 -> full battlefield
D. Pult 1700 -> full battlefield

R1:
D. Scouts 0
D. Cavs 1500; attack A. Phracts, dead
A. Cavs 1500; attack D. Cavs
A. Phacts 1500; attack D. Cavs
D. Pikes 600
A. Pikes 1500; attack D. Cavs
D. Swords 550
A. Swords 1500; attack D. Cavs
D. Warriors 400
D. Workers 360
A. Rams 1520; attack D. Cavs

D. Archers 0 -> full battlefield; tradefire with A. Archers; Dead
A. Archers 1700 -> full battlefield; tradefire with D. Archers
D. Ballista 0 -> full battlefield; attack A. Archers; Dead
A. Ballista 1700 -> full battlefield; attack D. Ballista
D. Pult 1700 -> full battlefield; attack A. Archers

R2:
D. Scouts 0; Dead
A. Cavs 600; attack D. Pikes
A. Phacts 600; attack D. Pikes
D. Pikes 600; attack A. Phracts; Dead
A. Pikes 900
D. Swords 600; attack A. Phracts
A. Swords 950
D. Warriors 600; attack A. Phracts
D. Workers 600; attack A. Phracts
A. Rams 1340

A. Archers 1700 -> full battlefield; tradefire with D. Pults, due to overkill rule, attack D. Scouts
A. Ballista 1700 -> full battlefield; attack D. Pikes
D. Pult 1700 -> full battlefield; tradefire with A. Archers; Dead

R3:
A. Cavs 600; attack D. Swords
A. Phacts 600; attack D. Swords
A. Pikes 600; attack D. Swords
D. Swords 600; attack A. Pikes
A. Swords 600; attack D. Swords
D. Warriors 600; attack A. Pikes
D. Workers 600; attack A. Pikes
A. Rams 1160; attack D. Swords

A. Archers 1700 -> full battlefield; attack D. Warriors
A. Ballista 1700 -> full battlefield; attack D. Workers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by japanpimp

Ok, so
Round 1:
Me: -4k ballista, -38k cav
Opponent: -15,218 archers, -10,206 phract

Round 2:
Me: -62 pults, -30,339 scouts
Opponent: -100 archers

.... waiting for rest of prediction

In the mean time, here is mine:
I kill all opponent cav and phract, 100k+ archers, 60k pike, 40k sword

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You missed the 109,768 archers from my long post and you lose 280k archers first round. Am I the only one getting impression that you didn't read my post?


Round 1:
Me: -4k ballista, -38k cav, -280k archers
Opponent: -15,218 archers, -10,206 phract, - 109,768 archers

Round 2:
Me: -62 pults, -30,339 scouts, you will lose pike layers and maybe sword haven't checked yet
Opponent: -100 archers, opponent will lose cav and phract this round

Fixed it for you, I will do math tomorrow, too tired now.
Oh and I owe you rep blah, I think you are right for the movements, I will just do the math for the damage defenders do to attackers :D, do you by any chance remember the rule for archer range damage multiplying and for the different unit battle multipliers. I don't use them but since JP wants 99% I should try and use em.

www.evonyurl.com/pgvq12

changed priority? mechanics battle broken ?
Archers:balli ratio is over 3.75:1, and both over the leadership optimum size, then penalty is too high. Thats what i mean Blaah. And please use 0 start for defender not like Aero. I cant read it :)

(All time age II hero attack is 1/2, bbs.evony.com/showpost.php?p=1471992&postcount=79 , at the end "I'm sure that many will not see the H/2.").

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

www.evonyurl.com/pgvq12

changed priority? mechanics battle broken ?
Archers:balli ratio is over 3.75:1, and both over the leadership optimum size, then penalty is too high. Thats what i mean Blaah. And please use 0 start for defender not like Aero. I cant read it :)

(All time age II hero attack is 1/2, bbs.evony.com/showpost.php?p=1471992&postcount=79 , at the end "I'm sure that many will not see the H/2.").

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I think I can explain this.
Even though at first look the archers have a higher combined attack when you factor in that the hero bonus is given to about 40% of the ballista and about 9% of the archers, the total attack after calculations gives the ballista a higher attack (I'm guessing but I am pretty sure I am right) and that's why you get that report. The 3.75:1 ratio was made for age 1 where the bonus would be given to all troops, I think the report you showed shows us that we need to factor in leadership before we make attack ratio assumptions. Also I am not sure what you are saying about the age 2 attack always being half but could it be your confusing archer range reductions with star nerfs?

Oro, I think the way ranged unit damage multipliers work is from 100%~50% of total range, damage is 50%, 49%~1% its 100% damage, and at less than 1% (could just be at 0 range) its 25%.

The damage multipler for different units are just copy'd from Aero's advanced combat mechanics thread:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vAzHRmxDcq8/TG...afkg40/uvu.JPG

Un3x!!! Thank you soo much for clearing that up! Are there any situations where we actually take the full attack of a hero instead of just half? Is it in all PvP battles that this takes place? How about HCs?

Ill take a look at the report, and edit this message when if I figure out any other input to add about that report. :)

Edit: Oh and Un3x, currently I agree with the way xAmnesiax and later Birtles equation for Leadership, since that is the only post that makes sense to me. You know more than me on that topic though un3x, mind pointing me in the right direction?
I did some small tests on leadership when I was testing for the Life bonus's, but it seemed abit above my capabilities to understand then. Hopefully now though, it can start making sense to me once I start testing again... once I find the time that is, LOL.

http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=147395

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

I think I can explain this.
Even though at first look the archers have a higher combined attack when you factor in that the hero bonus is given to about 40% of the ballista and about 9% of the archers, the total attack after calculations gives the ballista a higher attack (I'm guessing but I am pretty sure I am right) and that's why you get that report. The 3.75:1 ratio was made for age 1 where the bonus would be given to all troops, I think the report you showed shows us that we need to factor in leadership before we make attack ratio assumptions. Also I am not sure what you are saying about the age 2 attack always being half but could it be your confusing archer range reductions with star nerfs?

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yes, you close, for now only 1 thing isnt accounted , the range modifiers (same for 1% rule, but not remember where i posted it). H/2 is specific for age II.
i don't know in what assumption you do calculation:
-leadership same all rounds or changed round by round?
-leadership per total troops count or per stack? (that report clarify that)
-leadership do same penalty for attack like for inteli or is different?
-leadership affect 1% layers rule and target priority ?
-leadership formula and rules are same for HH like for regular RH?
-...

for around 850 reports i cant post these in 1 thread and seems like i'm lazy poster.
but changing the priority as resulting from that report is a great thing for a weak player like me. i can defend better. too bad that i posted the 1% rule. i don't think i can find more things like that.


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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

Oro, I think the way ranged unit damage multipliers work is from 100%~50% of total range, damage is 50%, 49%~1% its 100% damage, and at less than 1% (could just be at 0 range) its 25%.

The damage multipler for different units are just copy'd from Aero's advanced combat mechanics thread:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vAzHRmxDcq8/TG...afkg40/uvu.JPG

Un3x!!! Thank you soo much for clearing that up! Are there any situations where we actually take the full attack of a hero instead of just half? Is it in all PvP battles that this takes place? How about HCs?

Ill take a look at the report, and edit this message when if I figure out any other input to add about that report. :)

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Thx a lot blah, I owe you more rep. If my memory is right 50-100% archer range = 50% power 25%- 50% = 100% power and 0-25% = 25% power. But I could be wrong, don't need anything more than this for JP's reports so I am good.

And un3x people find out everything sooner or later so keeping info to yourself for a extended period of time is practically impossible. When I do calc I persume leadership affects however many troops it should all the time unless the number drops below the leadership. So if you have 220k archers and you have a lvl100 hero affecting 110k or so of them and 110k die in a round I believe that 110k will still receive the bonus instead 55k lead troops and 55k non led troops in the next round. I try to simplify leadership as much as I can basically and don't get into nerfs that much since there isn't any formula I can do to determine them. Also I like to think that the evony developers don't make too many twists and turns, like RH having different leadership properties than HH or intel affects being different then attack effects. This kind of viewpoint has done me good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

Oro, I think the way ranged unit damage multipliers work is from 100%~50% of total range, damage is 50%, 49%~1% its 100% damage, and at less than 1% (could just be at 0 range) its 25%.

The damage multipler for different units are just copy'd from Aero's advanced combat mechanics thread:
http://lh4.ggpht.com/_vAzHRmxDcq8/TG...afkg40/uvu.JPG

Un3x!!! Thank you soo much for clearing that up! Are there any situations where we actually take the full attack of a hero instead of just half? Is it in all PvP battles that this takes place? How about HCs?

Ill take a look at the report, and edit this message when if I figure out any other input to add about that report. :)

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At 50% is full, and 25% happen when ranged are in range of units that attack, so if cavs with 100, then at 0-100 will have 25%.
For HA/2, always is HA/2 in ageII. The sentence "when outnumbered" have no meaning for me, as i use 1% rule and there not outnumbered.
There is a leadership formula, and is affected by star set and uprise. (in Birtles thread, a link).

As i said before, that's my little chance to defend myself, to use what any calculator do bad than real battle. ("real"? lol)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

...
And un3x people find out everything sooner or later so keeping info to yourself for a extended period of time is practically impossible...

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Sure, they started again after my last posts. My mistake ( :) ).


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Well, some good news and bad news.
The good news is that the supression settings did not change. The bad news is that the player moved their HH out of the city so the battle conditions changed.
However, the opponent had a normal level 100 hero with 756 attack, 100 leadership and only 24 intel.
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

Interesting to note, the battle went an extra round based soley on the hero change. Also interesting to note, the kills that I made were roughly the same as the predicted kills that Oro made when the opponent had a HH.
Original report:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110831-01.jpg
Report after hero change:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

An extra round can mean a BIG difference in a battle. So how did a hero change make the battle go an extra round? Did anyone forsee that?
You know what else is interesting? I have one gear at 1 star... didn't seem to make that much of a difference. So obviously I do not have a 1 star set. Which means the gear with the lowest stars does not determine your star "star set" life bonus.
Considering everything... looks like we have a long ways to go before we fully understand Age 2 battle mechanics, bonuses and penalities and leadership....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by japanpimp

Well, some good news and bad news.
The good news is that the supression settings did not change. The bad news is that the player moved their HH out of the city so the battle conditions changed.
However, the opponent had a normal level 100 hero with 756 attack, 100 leadership and only 24 intel.
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

Interesting to note, the battle went an extra round based soley on the hero change. Also interesting to note, the kills that I made were higher than the predicted kills that Oro made when the opponent had a HH.
Original report:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110831-01.jpg
Report after hero change:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

An extra round can mean a BIG difference in a battle. So how did a hero change make the battle go an extra round? Did anyone forsee that?
You know what else is interesting? I have one gear at 1 star... didn't seem to make that much of a difference. So obviously I do not have a 1 star set. Which means the gear with the lowest stars does not determine your star "star set" life bonus.
Considering everything... looks like we have a long ways to go before we fully understand Age 2 battle mechanics, bonuses and penalities and leadership....

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You killed more in that report because less archers got the int bonus from the hero due to leadership being low. Also because your 280k archers lasted longer than a single round.

The problem in that report is that even though your troops weren't getting life bonus the opposing side already had enough attack to kill you with or without life bonus. Life bonus is only helpful when it keeps your archers alive to shoot another round, if they are killed in one hit their extra life doesn't matter. If you had had a decent starset is the second report you would have killed more since it is shown that your archers lasted 2 rounds rather than 1 so star set would have increased the amount surviving the 1st round. This is not a indicator that star set math and theory is flawed.

Anbd JP I look forward to calcing another attack (this was fun :D) but please make sure next time that you can sustain the circumstances required... maybe set up with a friend or a inactive city.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

... currently I agree with the way xAmnesiax and later Birtles equation for Leadership...
http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=147395

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I think Birtles was first, they did tests sametime. For your fun, i had over 1000 reports at that time and i wasn't able to see the right formula :)

Even more, only last week i saw what happen with my heroes at low level, they lose stars, so at lvl 1-9 will have max 6 stars, only at lvl 30+ back to 9 stars. I don't remember if that happen too when workshop low level, noticed only gears same lvl like workshop.
This thing can be used when colonized.


To edit:...

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We have to get together and share reports Un3x!! :)

JapanPimp, I know Im still on your perma-blocked list, but since you do sometimes grace those haunted souls in your blocked list by reading what they say every once in a while, can you please help provide us with the following information so that we can try to be as accurate as possible in forecasting the result of your future uprises:

- The Attack (without Excalibur), Intel (without Art of War), Leadership of your hero and whether you have Excalibur or Art of War on your hero.
- Whether or not you have war horn or corselet on during the uprise, and whether or not you were benefiting from the uprise buff.
- The Attack (without Excalibur), Intel (without Art of War), Leadership of GhostDog's hero and whether he has Excalibur or Art of War on his hero.
- Whether or not GhostDog has war horn or corselet on at that time and whether or not he even uses the uprise buff.

I think this was the information Oro is looking for. Feel free to add anything to this Oro or Un3x as well!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

We have to get together and share reports Un3x!! :)

JapanPimp, I know Im still on your perma-blocked list, but since you do sometimes grace those haunted souls in your blocked list by reading what they say every once in a while, can you please help provide us with the following information so that we can try to be as accurate as possible in forecasting the result of your future uprises:

- The Attack (without Excalibur), Intel (without Art of War), Leadership of your hero and whether you have Excalibur or Art of War on your hero.
- Whether or not you have war horn or corselet on during the uprise, and whether or not you were benefiting from the uprise buff.
- The Attack (without Excalibur), Intel (without Art of War), Leadership of GhostDog's hero and whether he has Excalibur or Art of War on his hero.
- Whether or not GhostDog has war horn or corselet on at that time and whether or not he even uses the uprise buff.

I think this was the information Oro is looking for. Feel free to add anything to this Oro or Un3x as well!

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Thats about it I think, also the speed buff that you can get from fb. I haven't done testing into it but I think it may affect speed of units in battle as well as out or it could be just like the Horseback Riding equipment but ya never know.

And blah you have no idea how much pleasure it gives me to hijack a JP thread and turn it into a treasure trove of knowledge :D

We should try to do this in every one of his threads from now on ;)

Im not sure about the speed buff since Ive never used it, but that would be interesting to see an increase in speed. It would definately add another level to this thing lol. Its almost like evony keeps trying to add another level of complexity whenever we get close to figuring it all out :)

Edit: Updates on your star set would be great too JP

Facebook speed buff (buxom), do not affect battles, same for level of mount speed. I can be wrong, test was indirect, using the rule fast unit move first, against a valley lvl 10 with cavs inside (lvl 10 mount speed + 1 buxom).

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

You killed more in that report because less archers got the int bonus from the hero due to leadership being low. Also because your 280k archers lasted longer than a single round.

The problem in that report is that even though your troops weren't getting life bonus the opposing side already had enough attack to kill you with or without life bonus. Life bonus is only helpful when it keeps your archers alive to shoot another round, if they are killed in one hit their extra life doesn't matter. If you had had a decent starset is the second report you would have killed more since it is shown that your archers lasted 2 rounds rather than 1 so star set would have increased the amount surviving the 1st round. This is not a indicator that star set math and theory is flawed.

Anbd JP I look forward to calcing another attack (this was fun :D) but please make sure next time that you can sustain the circumstances required... maybe set up with a friend or a inactive city.

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Wait, what I said was wrong. I did not want to say I killed more. The opponent had a weaker hero and my kills were still ROUGHLY in line with predictions when the hero was a HH. My point is, The kills should have been way different in light of the HH not being there.
And I will never ever do battles with friends. Those are setups and stagged battles. I only want to post real world reports.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

Thats about it I think, also the speed buff that you can get from fb. I haven't done testing into it but I think it may affect speed of units in battle as well as out or it could be just like the Horseback Riding equipment but ya never know.

And blah you have no idea how much pleasure it gives me to hijack a JP thread and turn it into a treasure trove of knowledge :D

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And don't get it twisted. No hijacking going on here. All this discussion is surrounding the reports. And don't get me wrong. I DO appreciate people contributing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

We have to get together and share reports Un3x!! :)

JapanPimp, I know Im still on your perma-blocked list, but since you do sometimes grace those haunted souls in your blocked list by reading what they say every once in a while, can you please help provide us with the following information so that we can try to be as accurate as possible in forecasting the result of your future uprises:

- The Attack (without Excalibur), Intel (without Art of War), Leadership of your hero and whether you have Excalibur or Art of War on your hero.
- Whether or not you have war horn or corselet on during the uprise, and whether or not you were benefiting from the uprise buff.
- The Attack (without Excalibur), Intel (without Art of War), Leadership of GhostDog's hero and whether he has Excalibur or Art of War on his hero.
- Whether or not GhostDog has war horn or corselet on at that time and whether or not he even uses the uprise buff.

I think this was the information Oro is looking for. Feel free to add anything to this Oro or Un3x as well!

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I will give as much info as I can in future reports. But knowing enemy info will be impossible unless they decide to tell me.

But I think it is fair to say that the battle results were not what any of us expected especially in light of the opponent HH not being there. Something strange is going on. Something that is on a curve. And I want to know what composes this curve. Stars? Hero level? Leadership? All of them somehow?

In regards to the enemy hero, statistics is a great way to know what you are dealing with. With knowledge of how much bonus is given to a hero with different star level, you can also predict whether or not Excalibur or Art of war is on Ghost's hero. In regards to war horn or corselet, why not just ask? Lol You never know what type of information someone can or would share unless you ask them.

Again, I don't agree with the notion that something strange is going on, as these reports do not contradict the established principles many of us refer to. The "theories" that have been shared on these forums are products of keen players finding patterns, and digging deeper to try and figure out why and how their troops react in certain ways. The established battle mechanics are established because they have been tested for the most part, and hold true, especially the ones that are carried over from Age I. Right now what we are doing is figuring out the new additions Age II added to this game, this doesn't mean that the old mechanics are wrong. It just means that another dimension has been added, and we have to isolate it to figure it out entirely.

Edit: Thank you for sharing that Un3x, This means I don't have to start looking into it unless things do go awry when its on lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

Facebook speed buff (buxom), do not affect battles, same for level of mount speed. I can be wrong, test was indirect, using the rule fast unit move first, against a valley lvl 10 with cavs inside (lvl 10 mount speed + 1 buxom).

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Hmm your probably right but it might be worth more looking into. Still not many people use buxom anyway since it messes up camptime.

And JP I agree with blah, nothing in the report says that something weird is going on. If something was wrong in our theories the difference would be obvious. At most this shows us that our numbers may be a little off. Use a inactive city next time then, plenty around on old servers. I want to do the math on another and have Blah and maybe un3x do the same and see if our results are the same.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

In regards to the enemy hero, statistics is a great way to know what you are dealing with. With knowledge of how much bonus is given to a hero with different star level, you can also predict whether or not Excalibur or Art of war is on Ghost's hero. In regards to war horn or corselet, why not just ask? Lol You never know what type of information someone can or would share unless you ask them.

Again, I don't agree with the notion that something strange is going on, as these reports do not contradict the established principles many of us refer to. The "theories" that have been shared on these forums are products of keen players finding patterns, and digging deeper to try and figure out why and how their troops react in certain ways. The established battle mechanics are established because they have been tested for the most part, and hold true, especially the ones that are carried over from Age I. Right now what we are doing is figuring out the new additions Age II added to this game, this doesn't mean that the old mechanics are wrong. It just means that another dimension has been added, and we have to isolate it to figure it out entirely.

Edit: Thank you for sharing that Un3x, This means I don't have to start looking into it unless things do go awry when its on lol

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I agree in that some of the basic mechanics from Age 1 battling are tried and proven thus carried over into Age 2... and those have not changed much. No argument there.
My main thing is to work out all these curves that are specific to Age 2. The battle mechanics are heavily influenced by the Workshop gear, stars, HH and non-HH differences. In fact the mechanics are influenced so much by that that a player with a level 100 hero with 4 stars on every gear will lose very badly to a player with a HH with 15 stars on every gear. And they could beat them down with basically just warriors. Now, if you guys want to call that "life bonus" and "attack bonus" and whatever.... fine. Bottom line is it changes the battle in a extremely big way. And I have a feeling this is not linear. It works on a curve. Again, if 12 gears at 15 stars and 1 gear at 1 star I do not believe that player has a "One star" set.

@Oro: Ok, I will post more reports with more flat troop counts so the calculations will be easier. You guys can pick it apart when I do.

I think the use of the term, "X star set" alluded them to have more meaning than they actually do. In reality, all that star level dictates is a life bonus (and a leadership bonus if un3x is right). The attack strength is not effected by this star bonus as far as I know, and as far as my testing shows, so the per round damage would still be around the same, regardless of what "star set" and life bonus you actually have (if leadership is not effected).

Now with regards to the differences caused by differing star, and gear levels, this is already apparent with the huge differences stars and gears make with the statistics of a hero. That was never really something that needed to be pointed out, it's already very apparent in statistics.

Specific to stars levels however, we saw that for some reason, troops did alot better, even with similar attributes, if star levels overall were higher. We delved deeper into the cause of it, and found that troops do last longer with higher stars. This is what we called the star life bonus. You can see it most apparently in level 10 farming. If you want to get specific and find out the exact numbers for the bonus, you can check out birtles threads about the damage equations, and use those to do tests. I usually do valley tests as any valley hero does not have any attack, int, or leadership. Pvp tests are very cool to do if you have a partner.

If you really want to put the effort into finding and confirming this yourself, Id love to help you out too.

Another concept that was introduced is leadership, and so far the accepted idea is that it puts a limit on how many troops a hero can effectively lead. It is also what makes HH's so much more prized over regular heros. What I believe, and what I think un3x has already figured out, is that leadership actually determines what percentage of a hero's stats is actually applied to your troops, (per troop type stack or overall, Im not sure, but I agree with birtles that it is more likely troop type stack). Up to an optimum number of troops, all of a heros stats are applied in full to the troops; once you go over that, then only a fraction is applied, with the fraction becoming smaller the higher the number of troops the hero has to lead. Since star levels might also have an effect on leadership, that's another dimension we have to account for.

I haven't put a lot of effort into confirming the effect on leadership yet, though so, this part is theory thus far, atleast for me. Star life bonuses though, I have tested most of them, and the numbers that I found were pretty universal for all the battles I tested them in. These numbers were:

For a star set (determined by the lowest star level):
Level 0-4, 1x life
Level 5-8, 1.4x life
Level 9-11, 2x life
Level 12, 13, 2.5x life
Level 14 I haven't thoroughly tested it yet, so I don't have a solid number to put here yet.
Level 15, 3.2x life

Again if you would like, I can walk you through exactly how I got these numbers, so that you can duplicate them yourself. As for reports, since I had many friends and alliance members do tests for me a while back to confirm this, the reports from then are expired. I can and will ask again though, but some aren't too keen on helping me out (looking at you DM!!) lol

One thing I am trying to figure out is if all but one gear has 15 stars and that one gear is say, 1 star... I highly highly doubt the troops will only get a 1x life bonus.

I need a report 15 set, with all info.

Here the report for speed, forest 10, Queen intel 339.7 at 9 stars:

If my cavs moved first then my archers hit by archers, sword and warriors (r1, r4 and r5).
But was hit by cavs and archers (r1), cavs again(r2), swords and warriors (r4), and again warriors (r5).
At 80% penalty, effective intel is 271.
Used +20 in leadership formula: 100*10*(100+20) = 120k troops to lead, then 120k/150k = 80%.
Archers kill 86, cavs hit 205+204=409, swords hit 144 and warriors hit 320*2=640.
In round 2, my 1 phract kill 1 cav, then rest of cavs kill only 204 archers. Buxom added as 1% to research (51%).
Total 1279.

The difference is too big, at least 400 from cavs.

We can set up a test if you want JP, easy enough to do especially with valleys. Why don't you find a valley right now, preferably with one troop type only, and send 100k warriors with a level 100 hero. Post it here, and tell me exact stats of your hero and the buffs you have on. Ill walk you through determining the life on your troops.

Un3x, Im asking around now :)

http://www.evonyurl.com/xe4lm7

Level 10 valley,
hero stats:
attack 1023
Int 94
War horn and corsolet on
Excalibur on
Art of War not on
Uprise Buff not on

Un3x, Ok, I will post some for you.
Blah, I don't think valley hits will work. What I am trying to say is that the results are on a curve. Based on troop numbers, enemy hero level, enemy gear and stars, etc...
Valley tests will not give us a result than can be transfered other PvP battle situations... especially with high troop uprise battles where troop numbers influence penalties, stars and gear and hero leadership. So I'll just keep posting what I can. I understand you guys want as much information as possible. But honestly, I am not looking for 99% accuracy. I am looking to learn how the battles play out under various circumstances related to large troop numbers, hero leadership, stars, etc...
You yourself even said you would not be able to determine what would happen at or after the 3rd round due to all the gear and star and leadership stuff. So the more real world examples I can post the more we can learn how battles play out with all the workshop and hero stuff related to age 2.
I'll be posting more battles.

I never stated I wouldn't be able to determine what would happen at the 3rd round and after, what I said was I hadn't done the damage calculations, and therefore there was a good chance that because of damage, some troops would likely have different targets. We can make accurate predictions on damage, movement, and even entire rounds, but we need all the info to do that. The reason why I didn't do the damage calculation is because I didn't have all the information, such as buffs and exact hero stats.

But you are right in the fact that when you initially posted the hit, I didn't know about the Age II heros only having half attack applied when attacking, so calculating damage then would likely have been off lol. Maybe I can do a better job of it now :)

If you do not like valleys, we can do Pvp tests as well JP.

Nice job Un3x! Which research are you referring to when you say it increased by 1%? Horseback riding?

Oh wait I understand, so the buff does effect research huh. Great to know, thank you for testing it out :)

Why +20 in the leadership formula?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blah99200

We can set up a test if you want JP, easy enough to do especially with valleys. Why don't you find a valley right now, preferably with one troop type only, and send 100k warriors with a level 100 hero. Post it here, and tell me exact stats of your hero and the buffs you have on. Ill walk you through determining the life on your troops.

Un3x, Im asking around now :)

http://www.evonyurl.com/xe4lm7

Level 10 valley,
hero stats:
attack 1023
Int 94
War horn and corsolet on
Excalibur on
Art of War not on
Uprise Buff not on

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Yes is exactly x3.2 life. Thks :)

But now i need a regular hero, as this one having big leadership will need more troops.
Can you do it again for same valley with 150k-200k warriors?

thks


EDIT: Buxom for 1% to life. I don't see 1% to speed in this report, sorry i did it from first lvl 10 valleys found. not too clear, i can search one with only cavs inside. But speed is easy to see by time for troops to attack or scout (time to make 100 miles).

OHhhh I did the round by round wrong, you're exactly right :)

On the leadership formula you use, it is slightly different compared to birtles, is this on purpose? Or am I just not seeing its the same formula but being used in a different format than Im used to lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blah99200

OHhhh I did the round by round wrong, you're exactly right :)

On the leadership formula you use, it is slightly different compared to birtles, is this on purpose? Or am I just not seeing its the same formula but being used in a different format than Im used to lol

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Optimum troops =level*10*(level+bonus)
bonuses:
0-4 stars = +10 (Birtles)
5-8 stars = +15 (xAmnesiax)
9-11 stars = +20
12-13 stars = not determined yet
14stars = not
15 stars = hope now


.

http://www.evonyurl.com/piwxe9

Level 8 valley
Hero Stats:
attack 753 (The decimals in this case don't matter I believe)
Int 85
Lead 100
War horn and corsolet on
Excalibur not on
Art of War not on
Uprise Buff not on

Thank you soo much for sharing that info. Id love to help you fill in those gaps too :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blah99200

http://www.evonyurl.com/piwxe9

Level 8 valley
Hero Stats:
attack 753 (The decimals in this case don't matter I believe)
Int 85
Lead 100
War horn and corsolet on
Excalibur not on
Art of War not on
Uprise Buff not on

Thank you soo much for sharing that info. Id love to help you fill in those gaps too :)

---

Thks , but please, lvl 10 ... thats bcoz i got same loses for +27.5 to +32, the loses become high for HH at big troops.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by un3x

Thks , but please, lvl 10 ... thats bcoz i got same loses for +27.5 to +32, the loses become high for HH at big troops.

---

Sure, will edit in the report once I get one.

Do you think the bonus would follow the same pattern as the life bonus?

What I mean is:

star level Life bonus Lead Bonus
1-4------1x-----+10
5-8------1.4x---+14
9-11-----2x-----+20
12-13----2.5x---+25
14-------2.75x---+27.5
15-------3.2x----+32

The 14 set bonuses are just a guess

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blah99200

Sure, will edit in the report once I get one.

Do you think the bonus would follow the same pattern as the life bonus?

What I mean is:

star level Life bonus Lead Bonus
1-4------1x-----+10
5-8------1.4x---+14
9-11-----2x-----+20
12-13----2.5x---+25
14-------2.75x---+27.5
15-------3.2x----+32

The 14 set bonuses are just a guess

---

5-8 ----1.4x----+15 (I will try again with that +14 and lvl 1-29 hero)

New report for 1 buxom not affect speed in battle (must be no archers loses if my cavs move first, but maybe that not affect order of movement, only speed):

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by un3x

Optimum troops =level*10*(level+bonus)
bonuses:
0-4 stars = +10 (Birtles)
5-8 stars = +15 (xAmnesiax)
9-11 stars = +20
12-13 stars = not determined yet
14stars = not
15 stars = hope now


.

---

I dont see leadership as part of that Optimum troop guess.
Level(10)(level+bonuses)... ok.
But where is the leadership? How much does it effect optimum troops?

http://www.evonyurl.com/cir3k7
12 set on level 10 valley
attack 476.29 intel 26
corsolet and war horn on

http://www.evonyurl.com/ennoc4
15 set on level 10 valley
corsolet and war horn on

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by japanpimp

I dont see leadership as part of that Optimum troop guess.
Level(10)(level+bonuses)... ok.
But where is the leadership? How much does it effect optimum troops?

---

Replace level with leadership:
LD*10*(LD+bonus)

Not tried HH.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Blah99200

http://www.evonyurl.com/cir3k7
12 set on level 10 valley
attack 476.29 intel 26
corsolet and war horn on

http://www.evonyurl.com/ennoc4
15 set on level 10 valley
corsolet and war horn on

---

Not so sure but:

15 set --- x3.2 --- +30

12 set --- x2.5 --- +25


Second one is too low intel to have exact results, i switch to wisdom all equipment, to have at least 400 intel, then 1% errors. Only lvl 10 valleys.
14 set can have x2.5 - x2.9 and +25 - +30. (my guess x2.9 and + 30).

Thks.


.

Me:
Historic Hero, 245 leadership, 55 intel, excal on, war horn on, corselet on.
8 gears to 15 stars,
2 gears at 14 stars,
1 gear at 12 stars,
1 gear at 11 stars,
1 gear at 1 star.
Max everything. Max research, max buffs.

Opponent:
15 star set.
Normal hero, 100 leadership, 24 intel, war horn on, excal off.
Max everything. Max research, max buffs.


First uprise:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

Second uprise:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110903-01.jpg
Only thing that changed here was the troop numbers on my end.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by japanpimp

Me:
Historic Hero, 245 leadership, 55 intel, excal on, war horn on, corselet on.
8 gears to 15 stars,
2 gears at 14 stars,
1 gear at 12 stars,
1 gear at 11 stars,
1 gear at 1 star.
Max everything. Max research, max buffs.

Opponent:
15 star set.
Normal hero, 100 leadership, 24 intel, war horn on, excal off.
Max everything. Max research, max buffs.


First uprise:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

Second uprise:
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110903-01.jpg
Only thing that changed here was the troop numbers on my end.

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What would you like us to calc?

And un3x the buxom may not affect the "fast moves first" law. Maybe a test like a friend puts 1 pault 10000 archers in a valley and then you send 1k cav and nothing else at it. With a couple or max buxom wenches, if buxom works then archers should be killed, if not then well we are done here.
Oh and thx for the star set leadership bonus relation, I did not know that.
Also I get confused by the order of bonuses a lot, does the 3.2x bonus come into effect on the base life of the unit or the life after research bonuses have been applied? I messed up on my previous JP calc, applyed attack researches onto the hero changed life instead of directly to base. Ah well too many variables and not enough cause to be perfect.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by un3x

Replace level with leadership:
LD*10*(LD+bonus)

Not tried HH.

---

It's worth noting how birtles wrote it should anyone want to edit his spreadsheet

(LD*10+bonus)LD

00-04......0%....(LD*10+100)*LD
05-08.....40%....(LD*10+150)*LD
09-11....100%....(LD*10+200)*LD
12-13....150%....(LD*10+250)*LD
14....??
15-15....220%....(LD*10+300)*LD

which going by the bold number, doesn't leave much room for a 14 star bonus, maybe it's 12-14 stars at 150%, no separate bonus for 14 stars? does anyone have concrete data for a 14 star set?