Japanpimp Battle Reports

Well with the life bonus on a 15 set being 3.2x base life, that could have a 14 having 2.75x base life? Not much of an increase, but in the one test I did have of a 14 set, that fit the life bonus well.

I'm not sure about the leadership bonus just yet, I'm still tweaking around and need to some testing for myself so I can confirm the numbers myself.

Oro, the bonus is calculated on base life, before research is applied.

JP, thank you for the info, this means that you have both corsolet and war horn active right? I'll try to work out why the reports were different later today for you. Or maybe a couple of us here can :)

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Originally Posted by Nibus

It's worth noting how birtles wrote it should anyone want to edit his spreadsheet

(LD*10+bonus)LD

00-04......0%....(LD*10+100)*LD
05-08.....40%....(LD*10+150)*LD
09-11....100%....(LD*10+200)*LD
12-13....150%....(LD*10+250)*LD
14....??
15-15....200%....(LD*10+300)*LD

which going by the bold number, doesn't leave much room for a 14 star bonus, maybe it's 12-14 stars at 150%, no separate bonus for 14 stars? does anyone have concrete data for a 14 star set?

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By the looks of the chart 12-14 should be +250 since batches of 3 are common. But could be wrong, I hope this formula does not apply for HH as well because a 15 star set hh with 250 leadership can lead 700k troops effectively according to that formula.

i wish i knew how to play age2 lol

Quote:

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Originally Posted by japanpimp

I agree in that some of the basic mechanics from Age 1 battling are tried and proven thus carried over into Age 2... and those have not changed much. No argument there.
My main thing is to work out all these curves that are specific to Age 2. The battle mechanics are heavily influenced by the Workshop gear, stars, HH and non-HH differences. In fact the mechanics are influenced so much by that that a player with a level 100 hero with 4 stars on every gear will lose very badly to a player with a HH with 15 stars on every gear. And they could beat them down with basically just warriors. Now, if you guys want to call that "life bonus" and "attack bonus" and whatever.... fine. Bottom line is it changes the battle in a extremely big way. And I have a feeling this is not linear. It works on a curve. Again, if 12 gears at 15 stars and 1 gear at 1 star I do not believe that player has a "One star" set.

@Oro: Ok, I will post more reports with more flat troop counts so the calculations will be easier. You guys can pick it apart when I do.

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When you consider new battle mechanics theories you have to wonder, would a sane programmer bother with it? The guys who made these laws are people too and they tried to keep it as simple as possible. They could have made it that atk bonus for heroes is slightly different on every different location on the map, or that researches don't give +50% range bonus but actually 51.5% and therefore throwing us off (rarely). But the thing is they didn't. That's why I believe that there is nothing that makes formulas different from Valley warfare and PvP warfare other than the different elements that are present in PvP. I could be wrong but my logic tells me I am not, most of the laws we have today were figured out on valleys and have held for PvP for years.

Just asked someone to do a quick test with 14 stars (thanks to GreatDavid - Claymore) but he logged before I could confirm if he had facebook life buffs.
Anyway the test showed 280% life, will try to catch him online to verify the buff issue and to hopefully test the leadership bonus.

http://battlena21.evony.com/default....82c90e7523.xml

75 int

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

Just asked someone to do a quick test with 14 stars (thanks to GreatDavid - Claymore) but he logged before I could confirm if he had facebook life buffs.
Anyway the test showed 280% life, will try to catch him online to verify the buff issue and to hopefully test the leadership bonus.

http://battlena21.evony.com/default....82c90e7523.xml

75 int

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report deleted. dont post and delete it, then disapear for everyone. use www.evonyurl.com


.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

What would you like us to calc?

And un3x the buxom may not affect the "fast moves first" law. Maybe a test like a friend puts 1 pault 10000 archers in a valley and then you send 1k cav and nothing else at it. With a couple or max buxom wenches, if buxom works then archers should be killed, if not then well we are done here.
Oh and thx for the star set leadership bonus relation, I did not know that.
Also I get confused by the order of bonuses a lot, does the 3.2x bonus come into effect on the base life of the unit or the life after research bonuses have been applied? I messed up on my previous JP calc, applyed attack researches onto the hero changed life instead of directly to base. Ah well too many variables and not enough cause to be perfect.

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indeed, but i cant find a way to test though. i m thinking for like 5 hours lol

well, few hours until expire my 1 buxom, and really dont want another one !!!!! messed up all my spreadheet to make corrections for workers warriors and scouts at 5 stars. there added only 1% for unmodified base life. need test for mechs too but how fast move after that 1 bx better i do sometngh else like farming or so.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

indeed, but i cant find a way to test though. i m thinking for like 5 hours lol

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The 1 pault 10000 archers vs 1000 cav in a valley should work right?
The cav shouldn't reach the archers and kill nothing with their normal speed but if they move a bit faster with a couple buxom they will hit them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

report deleted. dont post and delete it, then disapear for everyone. use www.evonyurl.com


.

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wasn't my report to delete, thought he was offline.

100k scouts v level 10 valley, 7766 warriors, 2631 pike, 1754 archers

hero has 75 intel, losses = 3823 scouts.

how many rounds did the battle last?

Any buffs that he had on at the time? War Horn, Corselet, or Uprise buff?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

It's worth noting how birtles wrote it should anyone want to edit his spreadsheet

(LD*10+bonus)LD

00-04......0%....(LD*10+100)*LD
05-08.....40%....(LD*10+150)*LD
09-11....100%....(LD*10+200)*LD
12-13....150%....(LD*10+250)*LD
14....??
15-15....220%....(LD*10+300)*LD

which going by the bold number, doesn't leave much room for a 14 star bonus, maybe it's 12-14 stars at 150%, no separate bonus for 14 stars? does anyone have concrete data for a 14 star set?

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i like to factorize this "10" for math reasons, at 0 stars we have product LD*10 and sum LD+10.
that 10 may be other constant if HH., so i keep it symmetrical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

how many rounds did the battle last?

Any buffs that he had on at the time? War Horn, Corselet, or Uprise buff?

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for sure 3 rounds.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

for sure 3 rounds.

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Lmao I don't have my thinking brain on...nice catch un3x :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

wasn't my report to delete, thought he was offline.

100k scouts v level 10 valley, 7766 warriors, 2631 pike, 1754 archers

hero has 75 intel, losses = 3823 scouts.

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bonus 2.8 !!! (wanted 2.9 :( is too small :( )
r1:
pk/sc=1136
a/sc=151
w/sc=1117
pike die

r2:
a/sc=151
w/sc=1117
warrs die

r3:
a/sc=151
arch die

total: 151*3+1117*2+1136*1=3823.


Please repeat the test with regular 100 level hero, max intel and 150k scouts.

thks !

Here report screenshot from Nibus:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

i like to factorize this "10" for math reasons, at 0 stars we have product LD*10 and sum LD+10.
that 10 may be other constant if HH., so i keep it symmetrical.

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I'm not comparing the methods, just explaining what you would need to change if like me you use the Google doc spreadsheet to calculate results

I'll try to repeat the test if I can catch him online again, I just made a request for 14 star people in WC, don't really know the dude

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

wasn't my report to delete, thought he was offline.

100k scouts v level 10 valley, 7766 warriors, 2631 pike, 1754 archers

hero has 75 intel, losses = 3823 scouts.

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I may be extremely off but if you are trying to figure out the leadership bonus for starset 14 with that report don't you need more troops in it than your hero can properly lead?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

I may be extremely off but if you are trying to figure out the leadership bonus for starset 14 with that report don't you need more troops in it than your hero can properly lead?

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yeah, that was just to nail the life bonus first then I was going to ask him for a low leadership hero to do the next attack, but he disappeared!


edit: still had the report open in a tab :)

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2ylpcfn&s=7

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

Lmao I don't have my thinking brain on...nice catch un3x :)

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lol i dont have mine too, as Oro suggested pults and only now i see, cavs + 10 buxom can hit the pults :) total speed 1650 and range 100.

i dont remember but i think i tried with rams some time ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

yeah, that was just to nail the life bonus first then I was going to ask him for a low leadership hero to do the next attack, but he disappeared!


edit: still had the report open in a tab :)

http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2ylpcfn&s=7

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YaY I was right! I still have my thinking brain on!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

I'm not comparing the methods, just explaining what you would need to change if like me you use the Google doc spreadsheet to calculate results

I'll try to repeat the test if I can catch him online again, I just made a request for 14 star people in WC, don't really know the dude

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i dont use google spreadsheet of Birtles if that's what you mean, i have my "monster" for 6 rounds only.
search the leadership and change 150 with 250 or 270 for 14 stars or what number want to try. be sure to save a fresh copy first.


@ Oro : i suggested 150k troops already. with max intel and regular 100 lvl hero. the next thing is to verify some reports posted here. im thinking at www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

Hmm i keep trying to replicate your calc's un3x, but Im still off :(

Did you assume corsolet was on? and how about the base intell of the scouts? did you make it 280=(100*2.8)?

Edit: Hmm i get accurate losses with 2.85x life. Is this what you got as well?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

i dont use google spreadsheet of Birtles if that's what you mean, i have my "monster" for 6 rounds only.
search the leadership and change 150 with 250 or 270 for 14 stars or what number want to try. be sure to save a fresh copy first.


@ Oro : i suggested 150k troops already. with max intel and regular 100 lvl hero. the next thing is to verify some reports posted here. im thinking at www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110902-01.jpg

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Yep, JP sure picked an easy report for us... *grumbles* ... this is gonna take a while.
Has JP told us hero stats somewhere?
Also un3x can you tell me how hero int works in age 2, I felt like I was forgetting something last calc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

Hmm i keep trying to replicate your calc's un3x, but Im still off :(

Did you assume war horn and corsolet was on? and how about the base intell of the scouts? did you make it 280=(100*2.8)?

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war horn and corselet have no relevance in the report, not sure what base intel of scouts means?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

war horn and corselet have no relevance in the report, not sure what base intel of scouts means?

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War horn, no, corselet, yes. Corsolet increases the base defense of the scouts by 20%.

And I really dont have my thinking brain on lol. I meant base life. Scout base life is 100, and I get accurate losses when I make their life 285, meaning a star set life bonus of 2.85x.

corselet does nothing for scouts, birtles proved that ages ago along with iron working not applying to them either.

Can you please find the exact post for me?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

Hmm i keep trying to replicate your calc's un3x, but Im still off :(

Did you assume corsolet was on? and how about the base intell of the scouts? did you make it 280=(100*2.8)?

Edit: Hmm i get accurate losses with 2.85x life. Is this what you got as well?

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Life scouts .150 (medicine 10)

Bonus 2.8 , intel 75, then total life L = .150*2.8 + .075 = .495

Defence of scouts D=.950 (no matter corselet for scouts, minim defence is d= .050 then D=1-.050=.950)

Attack of
warrs = .075
pike = .225
archers = .045 (at 1/4 range modifier, mil trad 10)

Kill ratio:
K w/sc=A*D/L = .075 * .095 / .495 = 0.1439
K pk/sc= .225 *.095 / .495 = .4318
K a/sc = .045 * .095 / .495 = .0863

Scouts killed per 1 round:
w/sc = Nr wars * Kill rate = 7766 * 0.1439 = 1177.5
pk/sc = 2631 * .4318 = 1136.0
a/sc= 1754 * .0863 = 151.3

Loses are rounded down.

You sure nibus? I doubt it matters much though, with such low base defence to begin with its only a 1.4% damage reduction with ironworking and corselet affecting it.

Tyvm un3x for the calcs and ty Nibus for pointing that out. I always just used birtles equations without really looking at them and seeing how they worked. I guess that means that defense of scouts is always .95? Because they do not gain a bonus from IW? This is one thing I have a little bit of trouble grasping, but I will look into it.

Do any other troop types work like this as well? Meaning they have a set defense, where you don't use the defense equation:

Defence = 1-(((IW+100)/100*BaseDefense)/1000) <--- this is just the copy n paste of the equation off a spreadsheet I use to calculate damage per round.

I'm not going through hundreds of post to find something that is so easy to prove one way or the other, in fact I'm surprised that anyone is even asking but here are two reports for the same valley - got impatient waiting for the full respawn,

http://oi53.tinypic.com/2ps15he.jpg

http://oi55.tinypic.com/28cqaz8.jpg

forgot details! no star life bonus, Queen has 280.54 intell

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Blah99200

Tyvm un3x for the calcs and ty Nibus for pointing that out. I always just used birtles equations without really looking at them and seeing how they worked. I guess that means that defense of scouts is always .95? Because they do not gain a bonus from IW? This is one thing I have a little bit of trouble grasping, but I will look into it.

Do any other troop types work like this as well? Meaning they have a set defense, where you don't use the defense equation:

Defence = 1-(((IW+100)/100*BaseDefense)/1000) <--- this is just the copy n paste of the equation off a spreadsheet I use to calculate damage per round.

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Workers also have D=.950
Details here : bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=84773
If for age I was a way to have better defence for scouts (heroes over 186 intel), age II can't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

I'm not going through hundreds of post to find something that is so easy to prove one way or the other, in fact I'm surprised that anyone is even asking but here are two reports for the same valley - got impatient waiting for the full respawn,

http://oi53.tinypic.com/2ps15he.jpg

http://oi55.tinypic.com/28cqaz8.jpg

forgot details! no star life bonus, Queen has 280.54 intell

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Other details: - corselet and valley lvl 9 :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

What would you like us to calc?

And un3x the buxom may not affect the "fast moves first" law. Maybe a test like a friend puts 1 pault 10000 archers in a valley and then you send 1k cav and nothing else at it. With a couple or max buxom wenches, if buxom works then archers should be killed, if not then well we are done here.
Oh and thx for the star set leadership bonus relation, I did not know that.
Also I get confused by the order of bonuses a lot, does the 3.2x bonus come into effect on the base life of the unit or the life after research bonuses have been applied? I messed up on my previous JP calc, applyed attack researches onto the hero changed life instead of directly to base. Ah well too many variables and not enough cause to be perfect.

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I would like to know any bonuses I received based on the fact that one of my gears was just 1 star and the rest were much higher. I am almost positive that I got a life bonus (or whatever you gusy want to call it) that was more than a 1 star set.

As for leadership influences on high troop numbers... I purposefully made all my layers 300k since I had a HH. But notice how I made my Ballista layer 600k...
If you compare the 300k pike layer to the 600k ballista layer.. did one of them get some extra "poop" in the battle? I don't think so. I think the leadership effected both the 300k and the 600k the same. Also, I made the ballista layer 600k not only because it is double 300k but because I wanted to one-shot the opponent archers to give you a clean one-round calculation. The extra 300k rams were there just in case the opponent had moved a HH back into the city. Call it "insurance".
But mainly Un3x wanted me to post a uprise victory on a 15 star set player for his own benefit. So I did.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nibus

It's worth noting how birtles wrote it should anyone want to edit his spreadsheet

(LD*10+bonus)LD

00-04......0%....(LD*10+100)*LD
05-08.....40%....(LD*10+150)*LD
09-11....100%....(LD*10+200)*LD
12-13....150%....(LD*10+250)*LD
14....??
15-15....220%....(LD*10+300)*LD

which going by the bold number, doesn't leave much room for a 14 star bonus, maybe it's 12-14 stars at 150%, no separate bonus for 14 stars? does anyone have concrete data for a 14 star set?

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I'll post some reports of battles with a 14 set soon.
8 gears at 15 and 5 gears at 14. I am willing to bet that any bonuses from a setup like that are almost equal to a 15 set.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

Other details: - corselet and valley lvl 9 :)

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Damn Un3x... you sure know your stuff :flame:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Oro

Damn Un3x... you sure know your stuff :flame:

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He really does :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

Other details: - corselet and valley lvl 9 :)

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yes! was in a rush to get away :)

First, congratulations for successfully uprise.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by japanpimp

....
But mainly Un3x wanted me to post a uprise victory on a 15 star set player for his own benefit. So I did.
...

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That's a big hit :(
I PM-ed you a good method instead, but you wanted use your troops, that's great, you fair player.
I not expected you to do it so soon, so i hadn't the good troops combo in time :(
I cant if i don't know their hero attack (easy to find it in statistics), for now i use 788 attck. Other details: max buff include 10 buxoms? both sides? You used uprise buff also?
(At least to give a good breakdown for your last 2 reports)
There more questions unsolved for me, not only that last leadership bonus for 14 stars, that may affect or not these reports. It's about HH, never tested one.

.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by un3x

First, congratulations for successfully uprise.



That's a big hit :(
I PM-ed you a good method instead, but you wanted use your troops, that's great, you fair player.
I not expected you to do it so soon, so i hadn't the good troops combo in time :(
I cant if i don't know their hero attack (easy to find it in statistics), for now i use 788 attck. Other details: max buff include 10 buxoms? both sides? You used uprise buff also?
(At least to give a good breakdown for your last 2 reports)
There more questions unsolved for me, not only that last leadership bonus for 14 stars, that may affect or not these reports. It's about HH, never tested one.

.

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To be honest, I don't like to win uprise battles. It is not my goal. My goal is to kill enemy troops. If I win an uprise then I cannot kill their troops anymore. So I usually like to uprise will enough troops to kill 90% of their supression troops... and do it again and again and again.
I am not sure about buxoms. I don't know what it is. And uprise buffs, I don't know what that is. It is not in my Achievement menu.
opponent hero was 756 attack, 24 intel, full 15 star set, war horn on, no corselet. After uprise they removed the hero gear. Now the hero attack is only 337. But it might be a bug. The Evony hero statistics page sometimes displays wrong information.

But I had one gear at 1 star. So I want to know my "life bonus" because I think it is more than 200% although I have 1 gear at 1 star. Can you tell me what my life bonus was?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by japanpimp

To be honest, I don't like to win uprise battles. It is not my goal. My goal is to kill enemy troops. If I win an uprise then I cannot kill their troops anymore. So I usually like to uprise will enough troops to kill 90% of their supression troops... and do it again and again and again.
I am not sure about buxoms. I don't know what it is. And uprise buffs, I don't know what that is. It is not in my Achievement menu.
opponent hero was 756 attack, 24 intel, full 15 star set, war horn on, no corselet. After uprise they removed the hero gear. Now the hero attack is only 337. But it might be a bug. The Evony hero statistics page sometimes displays wrong information.

But I had one gear at 1 star. So I want to know my "life bonus" because I think it is more than 200% although I have 1 gear at 1 star. Can you tell me what my life bonus was?

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I noticed your nice method, just don't wanted to say nothing about (bcoz they think are safe with 10% settings). That's why i never expected to uprise, at least not so soon like you did. But i understand that you did it only for posting report. Thks.
Buxom is facebook "Zzzzz" green image, uprise buff can be measured looking at a regular 100 lvl hero, will have after uprise leadership changed 103, 106, 109 and so on. can be also posted in facebook and clicked only first 6 hours.
Buxoms cant be measured (same hero companion for food), thats a bug !


Edit: want also say me where is "ring" and "charm" ? at 15 stars or 14? bcoz they count twice.

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Yes, my ring and charm are at 15 stars.

Here is a uprise battle I just did on the same player with the 15 star set.
The Statistics menu said their HH attack was only 383. But that is a bug.
My queen has the same statistics as before.
I do not have more leadership, just 100 on my queen.

I like this uprise battle. It is almost perfect. I kill all the layers and barely touch the archers.
http://www.inetassociation.com/evony/20110904-01.jpg