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i agree, they can use the powerful gravitational pull of jupiter to sling shot any craft even faster, unfortunately, no where near the speed of light.Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
To travel vast distance requires vast amount of enegery which we still don't have, or the technology.
The closet that that we currently have is EVONY'S ADVANCE PORT.
I like to imagine it as the type of port that you drink, and it's so strong you wake up the next day in Thuringia and wonder what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlysage
Then that would be too strong indeedQuote:
Originally Posted by Boleslav
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Originally Posted by deadlysage
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Originally Posted by deadlysage
Guys, wtf? Things were going so smoothly, why are you talking about some dumb browser game that has nothing to do with this place?Quote:
Originally Posted by Boleslav
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Originally Posted by rasterbee
oh hey bee. it was worth throwing evony in the mix for added flavor.
Got some interesting comment in here, i have to admit.
No one has ever called me 'bee' before.
I'm not quite sure how to react.
Raster's head is spinning so fast right now we could use it's orbit to send a faster than light probe to Kepler-22b
Neither do i, but bee was easier on my keyboard and my fat fingers.Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
What I cannot wait for is the chance to witness man's attemp to land on mars and explore the planet and from that experience a concept for future space travel to a more distance planet.
I fully expect to live until the year 2080 and if I cannot stand on Mars with my own two feet by then I'll be so mad at all of you.
Mars? By the year 2080 we should have already destroyed Mars as well ...Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
Mars is about a third of the size of Earth or something, so we should be able to destroy it even faster than Earth.
Could that be the reason we cannot find intellegent life out there? they are too busy trying to hide from us? while doing so, laughing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas101
WW5: The United States of Mars vs Earth?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas101
No, the reason we have not found intelligent life is because we have only within the past 60 years become technologically aware. Like I said in reply to Rodri, if there is life elsewhere it will be microscopic organisms OR if it is intelligent they will have destroyed themselves or their home planet OR they will have died out naturally because the universe has been around for a very long time and the past 500 million years here on Earth is just a flash in the pan, it is highly likely that whatever intelligent life may have existed has already perished.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlysage
OR interstellar space travel just isn't possible and so even if there are other intelligent life forms we will not be able to interact with them in anyway but internet chat rooms.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
Just to help clear up the amount of time it would actually take to get to 22b, per the measurement of each light year being the equivilent of 5.9 trillion miles...it would take the space shuttle apprx 22 million years to get there. Hey, Unky! Your calculations were pretty close...only off by 4,872,677.1037182 years... +/- a few trillion, I'm sure. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by TheGr8UNKy
So, yes. Communication seems to be the best possibility of gaining the knowledge we need in order to get ourselves out there some kind of way before we die of old age and/or become space hash trying.
***Update***
Seems since Kepler-22b is 2.4 x the size of Earth, it is a bit too big to support life on its surface. Although they are finding that what with the planet's current orbit around its star giving it nearly the same calendar days (290) in its year, and that it probably has rock & water? They theorize that it is likely to be more like Neptune: made mostly of gas/liquid, with only a rocky core and an ocean-like surface. Something in a way of Waterworld in Space.
Kitti, I'm not knocking Grunky but he just got those numbers (and the math was already done for him) from Google. And we've already moved past that all agreeing that it's wrong because outside of the the influence of Earth or other bodies our space ships would move much faster than 17.5k mph.
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Originally Posted by rasterbee
Agree, even if we come face to face with alien life, will we recognize it as, such.
We recently discovered a new life-form on earth, an arsenic based life-form, arsenic is supposed to be lethal to human.
I believe that you may also be right on track on the possibility of advance life-form, destroying them self.
What is interesting is, how vast the universe is, and countless of galaxies. Surely, some sort of life must exist out there, whatever form that be.
Then the possibility that we may not be able to see them, but they can see us.
I like how this conversation has turned from recent scientific findings into a serious discussion about hipster multi-dimensional beings that don't think we're cool enough to hang out them yet.
Now, here something to think about.
During the Russian's attempt to explore mars and its moon (Phobos), which was partially funded by US and other countries. They discovered something strange, something that is not suppose to be there. There is a monument there, but the question is, who put it there. This discovery is also commented by Buzz Aldrin, the second man to walk on our moon.
There was also a shadow of something hovering over mars surface, what could it be?
That probably won't happen for a while. Check the time frame on this:Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Message_From_Earth
It'd probably take us 600 years to say hi to anyone that might live on Kepler-22b. And another 600 years to get their response, assuming they did respond and immediately did so.
Until we find a way to send communications at a faster-than-light speed, I don't think we'll be doing any internet chats with aliens.
If you mean the visage on Mars, they already studied that and concluded that it's a natural formation, not artificial. Or perhaps you mean the canals, which were also studied and ruled as natural. You'd have to be more specific on what 'strange' thing you mean, and make sure it hasn't already been researched and dismissed as natural.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlysage
We are such a unique and scholarly bunch, waving our Wikipedia links around and acting all tough.
Plus, in order for alien life to know we are trying to communicate with them, they have to be listening. Then they need to know what technology we are using, and would they understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alusair
Chances are, they might be trying to communicate with us, and it could be that their technology is so advance, we don't know how to search for it.
It could also be very simple, but we might not be aware of it.
In theory, mathematics is believe to be a universal language, what if theirs is music... shrugs...
No, I meant the photograph of a shadow taken by one of the space probe sent to mars.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alusair
If you look for Russia's mission phobos 2, it will show you the evidences.
I had a similar thought way earlier in the discussion, though I've already come up with my self-denial argument defense: I'd link something more impressive than Wikipedia, but any credible source will already be linked by Wikipedia anyway, and it's easier to link to Wikipedia which links to 25 different sources it's paraphrasing than hunt each one down in Google to spamwall in here (unless googling is as cliche as wikilinking. If it isn't, it should be).Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
Though I'm willing to bet none of us actually take a profession in this stuff and are a bunch of peasants talking about mystical science stuff that goes over our heads, so choice of source doesn't make much different in the grander scheme.
But it's still an amusing way to pass time.
I think you're just hanging around here waiting for me to implode and post purnography, Alu.
Music is just physical vibrations converted into sound, there's no guarantee that every form of life will be able to detect it. Plus what may sound like music to one thing may sound different to another (like horrible screeching).Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlysage
Math is more universal in that 1+1 is always 2. Or that geometrical shapes are always follow the same rule. Though this may be difficult to convey to something that doesn't have traditional senses like sight or hearing.
I found it:Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlysage
[link sabotaged by evony censor]
Unfortunately it's in Russian so I have no idea what it says. But according to ambiguous translators, this thing you mention was decided to be the distorted shadow of Phobos on Mars.
Nah, it's just a habit of mine to hang around in threads like this pretending I know stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
I hate when you don't re add people's names for every quote, Alu.
And hey look I wanted to ask you something but you banned me from your life. Re add me on Skype for like 5 minutes, ok?
Seeing as I am frantically cramming for a mathematical theory final I feel it my duty to tell you that 1+1 does not always equal 2, nor that geometric shapes always have the same rules ... if this was the case I might still have some hair on my head ... If you look at notation alone or the number system alone you will find it very flawed, if an alien culture uses something similar to our 'basic math' it could be completely different if they have 12 fingers and toes instead of our 10. As for any moderate level of math it is all speculation and hearsay.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alusair
Musical waves on the other hand are sound waves which any culture worth learning from would be able to detect, and using whatever form of calculation that they use they would be able to determine where those waves are coming from.
Alu, that's the same answer Revo gave me...and you know that. I just don't see how any of you can justify that as a good response.
Does the decision maker not come around here anymore?
Very possibleQuote:
Originally Posted by Alusair
Math is very possible, but what if they measure length by other means.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alusair
It still could paint the same picture, and you are right, without sense of sight, it would be difficult.
It could be a combination of both or with other things such as emotion, then the question of what is their emotion like.
Emotion can be considered universal language, since we know what is hostility and what is not, of-course minus agendas.
In addition to that, look up Buzz Aldrin on monument on Phobos.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alusair
There is this last photos supposedly taken by one of the probe sent to mars before losing contact. The photo showed a picture of something that looks like a rocket of some sort, which they suspect may have cause the shadow over mars surface.
So far, there is no new document release clarifying what it really was.
Deadly, just give us links. I found the Russian photos but I have no idea what you're trying to get us to search regarding Buzz Aldrin.
Very interestingQuote:
Originally Posted by Lucas101
Not every "culture" worth learning from will have the same sense of hearing as we do, Lucas and deadly.
And I guess I found what you were talking about regarding Buzz Aldrin, deadly. But he clearly says "the universe or God" put that monolith there. He makes no assertion whatsoever that it is prove of life outside this planet.
try this if evony let me post the site.Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iwzbw...eature=related
http://www.google.com/search?q=phobo...w=1536&bih=694
Ok, you're meshing together two things here. A little rock on a much larger rock that sticks up out of the ground and the UFO that the Russians supposedly photographed. If you're trying to say that a rock is evidence of alien life I'd like to point you towards the entire freaking planet you live on and all the interesting and varied geological formations found here.
A freaking rock on Phobos means nothing. It could look like a giraffe or a car or anything...and it'd still just be a rock. The link about Aldrin isn't loading for me for some reason, but I assume it's nearly identical to his rant in the link I posted in my last post.
EDIT: Yeah, your video loaded. It's the exact same thing as my link but with a little added radio transmission at the beginning making it feel all creepy and conspiracy-like. Aldrin is an interesting man though. I believe he is one of the many astronauts that claim to have seen some sort of unidentified object in space while out there in space himself. And...he once punched a man who accused him of the moon landing being entirely fake and everyone lying about it to make America seem more powerful in the 60s.
This should settle everything
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ibblFcvaKQ
Explains a lot about what life on other planets might be like
He is an Astronaut, I don't think he is allowed to make comments suggesting that it exist. He did say, he is not sure what it is right now,however, he also said that there is a monolith on the moon of mars, worth exploring.Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
He went on to say, if you choose to believe, god put it there, or the universe.
If that monolith is built, then the question would be, who built it there, and why?
It's a just a rock that smashed into Mars or something formed by erosion.
There isn't life on Mars, deadly. There may have been way way way long ago but that one little rock is definitely enough proof to say that there is no reason to think it's anything but a little rock formed by natural processes.
And yes, I'm aware that Aldrin is an astronaut. No wikipedia needed here, he was the 2nd human on the moon.
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Originally Posted by rasterbee
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV7_i...eature=related
If you look carefully on Phobos surface, how it is almost covered with craters of various size. For a lone monolith like structure or rock to be present there, is a bit strange. There is no wind strong enough to create such natural formation resembling what they believe to be a monolith.
That is why we love that man...Quote:
Originally Posted by rasterbee
He did say he saw something, but don't know what it is.
this is not to say that there is life out there, but it is a good place to start investigating.
Dude, you cannot link to Coast to Coast AM recordings and expect to be taken seriously. Art Bell, sure. But not George Noory.
Yeah, it's a unprotected rock flying around space. It gets hit by tons of stuff and it's ALL strange 'cause everything is strange. What would be normal in this situation? A perfect sphere?Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlysage
Everything on this planet is strange, we're just used to it. And there's tons of stuff here on this planet that are FAR more strange than a little rock sticking out of a big rock.
P.S. This is the guy who was talking in the last link you shared. I listen to him all the time on Coast to Coast, he's a nutcase.
You should watch Dr. Michio Kaku describes of three types of aliens.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vXj4Po86gT0
This is not to say that he saying life do exist, it is a theory of what type of alien life could exist out there.
In one of his videos, he made a comment about how an alien could have built a structure on a moon of a planet waiting for any species advance enough to discover it. Of-course this is just a theory and very possible.
You'd have to tell that to the scientists and philosophers that decided this, I'm only repeating their message.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas101
But I think the problem here is you're looking at the language conveying math, not math itself. Different cultures may have different words or different symbols for "one" (case in point: compare Chinese and English), but one, in whatever language or interpretation it's conveyed, is always one.
Example: We have one sun. It is a singular object, and not a multiple. Perhaps in Opposite Land (located on Earth), their word for "one" is actually "two". So they will say, "We have two sun." but that doesn't mean we all suddenly have multiple suns in our sky. We have a singular star. We call it one. Opposite Land has a singular star. They call it two. Ultimately, however, it is the same thing, no matter how it's described: a singular star.
Geometric shapes would be the same. A three-cornered shape whose angles always add up to 180 degrees is a triangle. Unless you go into a universe with different dimensions (which I'd rather rule out), a three-cornered shape whose angles always add up to 180 degrees is always going to be a triangle, whether it's called a triangle by humans, a cat by Martians, or a "gggargglglabl" by the Gobbledygooks.
If you could tell an alien race to draw a (2D) shape of the Earth (assuming they're capable of doing this), they'd draw a circle. No matter what the aliens call this circle, a circle is what it is, and that's what's supposed to make math a universal language.
Physical senses aren't universal, though. We have no guarantee that all possible life out there has vision, hearing, feeling, taste, or smell. We've found plenty of things on our own world that lack some of these things (for instance, moles don't have eyes). There's also no guarantee we possess all senses. We can't see infra-red, ultraviolet, x-ray, or heat with our naked eye, yet there they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lucas101
To put the shoe on the other foot, what happens if aliens decide that telepathy, or "palevosence" (some hypothetical sensation I just made up for sake of example which we have no equivalent for) is the universal communication that determines whether life is intelligent or not? Well, we'd be left out.
This is a problem with math being universal, however. Despite however you want to describe singularity or a shape, they, as a concept, exist everywhere in the universe. The problem is being able to communicate this to others. How would you tell a plant what we call a circle? Granted, a plant isn't considered sentient, but this is a possible situation we'd have trying to communicate with alien life.
In this way, sure, perhaps math isn't as great a language as it's proclaimed to be, because it would suggest a method of communication and there is no guarantee it would work that way (refer to example of the plant). But it is universal in the way that oranges may exist only on Earth, but spheres exist everywhere in our galaxy (such as in the form of most stars and planets and other large enough spacial bodies to develop a regular shape), and it's assumed that intelligent life will have developed some sort of recognition for numbers or shapes, however alien this recognition would be to someone from Earth. Then again perhaps it's arrogant and erroneous for us to assume intelligent life would recognize these things as we do.
Interesting thought, it's theorized that all biological life will follow the same instinctual drive (preservation and reproduction) and that emotions such as anger, jealousy, contentment, and so on go hand in hand with these drives.Quote:
Originally Posted by deadlysage
However there's no guarantee on this either of course, since we have only Earth life to work with. And well, think about life like plants or bacteria- they're alive, they're biological like us, and carbon-based like us, but we can't tell their emotions, or even if they have emotions.
Then again they're not sentient either, which throws it all away (chimps or whatever, arguably our closest equivalent, likely lack the cognitive skills to recognize math for what it is). Though emotions might be something that's supposed to go hand in hand with cognitive intelligence too, I forget. But who knows what other sentient life in the galaxy would be like.
EDIT:
I forgot, animals have emotions without cognitive intelligence. So nevermind that.