I am ASHAMED..........

I am ashamed to consider myself a regular of the OT forum after what I read in the photo thread. That was completely uncalled for and downright cruel.

How dare a grown man pick on a teenage girl and then others have the nerve to join in.

On behalf of the rest of the OT crowd lyla, I sincerely apologize for their actions. I also apologize that some of us were not actively online when it happened to step in and crush those people deservedly.

If this is how the OT crowd is going to start behaving then I doubt I will be a regular anymore.

People should feel nothing but shame for what happened, anyone who saw what was going on and did not make attempts to step in on lyla's behalf should also feel the same amount of shame.

I will agree. Sorry I didn't look at photos I would of stepped in.

I have just recently noticed the particular situation.

Such an event was a form of dilapidation or a decay in morality and a degeneration of concord and friendliness to one of baseness and licentiousness.

In essence, such are the barberous propensities of humanity as a whole and an illustration of human weakness.

Abracax and FoxyBunny, I thank both of you for your benevolence, kindness and sense of justice/morality. Your firm and unwavering positions on this situation will hopefully deter future occurences of such vile and pernicious behavior.

I have a feeling I'm not going to like what I'm going to see in that topic...

I have dealt with two of the three involved, and wil be deleting the posts, as I find them offensive and a disgrace to these boards.

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Originally Posted by JPA32

I have a feeling I'm not going to like what I'm going to see in that topic...

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You definitely won't, after reading it all, I was very ****ed off. Still am ****ed off and offended on the girls behalf. How dare anyone act like that without provocation.

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Originally Posted by logrus

I have dealt with two of the three involved, and wil be deleting the posts, as I find them offensive and a disgrace to these boards.

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ok, its bad, but its not THAT bad. TBH, im not sure bans were the right way to go. Were any warnings even issued before the banhammer was brought down?

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Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce

ok, its bad, but its not THAT bad. TBH, im not sure bans were the right way to go. Probably a bit extreme for calling someone "preppy."

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Obviously you did not read the whole thing, banning was not extreme for the things they said to her and their behavior in that thread. What they did was inexcusable, they attacked the girl over her pics for no reason at all and proceeded to do everything they could to degrade her.

Preppy? They called her a whole lot worse than that. Maybe Logrus deleted too fast or you didn't read far enough. I was insulted, and it's dang hard to insult me.

post edited, laggy laggy, couldn't get it in before you guys quoted

foxy please edit your double post please and thank you

I never actually got to see her pics and i got on after the banning occured

Yeah... they did more than just insulting "preppy." It was extreme and evil, the way they kept charging at her. Definitely deserves more than just banning.

EDIT: It was sad that other users were encouraging them to continue. :(

Some people are just trolls out to make themselves feel better.

Sometimes it's just better to ignore them than give them the satisfaction of letting them know they're getting to you

The 5 people who were active in that thread at the time should also be ashamed of themselves for not trying to stop it and not stepping in on lyla's behalf. By doing nothing, it is as bad as acting like that themselves.

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Originally Posted by abracax

The 5 people who were active in that thread at the time should also be ashamed of themselves for not trying to stop it and not stepping in on lyla's behalf. By doing nothing, it is as bad as acting like that themselves.

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Hey, hey, hey. Let's not get into that now.

Lyra's 18 according to her profile. I hope this is the worst she'll ever have to deal with, but lets face it, that's probably not going to happen. I'm sure she's a big girl and can take care of herself.

Well I did read the thread and I am not happy right now. especially if those weren't even the worst posts (In regard to posts being deleted be Logrus?)

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Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce

Hey, hey, hey. Let's not get into that now.

Lyra's 18 according to her profile. I hope this is the worst she'll ever have to deal with, but lets face it, that's probably not going to happen. I'm sure she's a big girl and can take care of herself.

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If you are with friends, and one of your friends decides to mug someone in front of you, and you do nothing. You are just as responsible for the crime.

This is no different, 5 people were active on that thread at the time and did nothing to even try and put a stop to it. There was plenty of "oh thats just zen" and even one person enjoying the show, completely uncalled for.

If you see something wrong happening, you as a human being have a moral obligation to stand up and try to put a stop to it. By not doing anything, you become an accomplice.

http://bbs.evony.com/showpost.php?p=...&postcount=520

It's a fair question

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Originally Posted by abracax

If you are with friends, and one of your friends decides to mug someone in front of you, and you do nothing. You are just as responsible for the crime.

This is no different, 5 people were active on that thread at the time and did nothing to even try and put a stop to it. There was plenty of "oh thats just zen" and even one person enjoying the show, completely uncalled for.

If you see something wrong happening, you as a human being have a moral obligation to stand up and try to put a stop to it. By not doing anything, you become an accomplice.

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sorry, are you equating a couple guys ridiculing a woman's photo to a mugging?

Look, I'm not condoning what they did but there's got to be a point where you stop babying people and let them deal with things themselves.

The mods should have stepped in, broken up the fight and given warnings/infractions. Not bans, that was too far.

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Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce

ok, its bad, but its not THAT bad. TBH, im not sure bans were the right way to go. Were any warnings even issued before the banhammer was brought down?

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I didn't get to read everything that they have said, but it seems as if it really did offend the girl.
I think what Logrus did, suspending the two users, was the right approach to this.
You said they should of warned them ? Why the warnings ? They deserved it.. I think a ten year old would even realize that flaming a person like that is wrong.
I would understand if it was only one post, maybe they got mad or were acting silly.. but this probably went on for pages & pages.

Thanks for dealing with this Logrus, and everyone else.

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Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce

ok, its bad, but its not THAT bad. TBH, im not sure bans were the right way to go. Were any warnings even issued before the banhammer was brought down?

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Really, I will post several of the numerous comments that I have not yet deleted.

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Originally Posted by Knuckles

hahahaha! well thats tongue looks like fire to me . and a happy birthday to you.


Drizz you can send me your cropped out nipples k please and thank you.

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Originally Posted by Zenrax

I wish I could say the same, but there's a "no-preppy-bizzach" rule around here, so you're going to have to leave.

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Originally Posted by Milonius

Ouch. I hate preppiness too.

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Originally Posted by Knuckles

dont hate on those out of your league mmk

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Originally Posted by Zenrax

It's okay, Knuckles. You don't have to pretend to like girls.





Edit: Why thank you, bob. I was going to try some even more soul-scarring sarcasm, but I figured that what I had got the point across.

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Originally Posted by Zenrax

Oh, of course. You're not a "prep", you're just a stereotypical American anorexic mall-stalking chick.


Wait a second....

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Originally Posted by Milonius

That guy sucks at rapping.

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Originally Posted by Zenrax

If that doesn't work, we could always shoot you.

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Originally Posted by Knuckles

haha Lyla go read the star wars vs star treck thread. you will feel better about yourself dont worry.

Zen i still will not date you sorry. I am at home enough in my sexuality that i can come across as gay to other fags. I didnt mean to hurt your feelers but i am married. To a little hottie that is skinny(haha when did skinny become a bad thing).

Sorry that you are fat zen. Eat a twinkie for me k. You can pretend its my weirner even.

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Originally Posted by Zenrax

Milo, don't be hasty. First, should we use the rocket launchers, or the miniguns?




Since when did people start referring to guys as "little hotties"? And really, Knuckles, don't make rash judgements. I can bench-press 350. Not exactly 'chubby' over here.

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Originally Posted by Knuckles

hahah . oh yeah. well in Vietnam i killed ten people with my bare hands while serving for the special forces.


I get better sex with my hand then you will in your entire life.

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Now tell me that was not worth a ban.

First of all, this language, and this tone disgusts me and frankly I want to apologize to the community, because I let YOU down. I let down Lyla, and I let down every single person that had to read these filthy posts.

Second: Everysingle one of these three posters are all people who have been warned before, and know full well what the rules of these forums are.

Third: BBQ Stop calling it a ban, it was not a ban, as I have pointed out to you before, it is a suspension. What you think is banworthy and what you think is warning worthy is NOT your call to make. This is not a college hallways, with limited access to people that are older and mature enough to take it. This is the internet, where people of all ages can be here.

Fourth: I want you all to look at this, foxy and I have talked about this and I agree with her. I have posted multiple times to stop swearing, to play nice with each other, and to stop spamming. While behaviour on a larger scale has conformed to this request, on a small scale it has NOT.

Look at it though, go look at that thread, and look at the posts that I have written up above. If you were a parent, and Lyla was your young daughter, and she wanted to join what seemed like a fun loving community of people who for the most part are all friendly, and she was greeted with THAT. How would you feel.

Fifth: I stated earlier, that as a Moderator I let you down, but you need to look yourselves in the eye and realize, that its not only my fault. This is YOUR fault too. Those of you who contributed to that thread, who silently abused that user by looking on and saying nothing. Or by making low level jibes at her and others, while you may have found if funny, I don't. For whatever its worth, and it may not mean much to you, a number of you have lost my respect today. Could you have taken action? Yes you could have. Could you have said hey guys quit that. Yes, could you have PM'ed me or any of the other moderators about it, and stopped it? Yes you could, but did you?

For those of you who think, oh he is just blowing this out of proportion blah blah, this is the internet, we can do what we like. You're wrong. The forums, are the property of EVONY, and they are the ones that make the rules not you not me EVONY. You may not like them you may not want to follow them, but while you are here in this domain space, you will abide by them. I am tired of this crap. Get your acts together, grow up, and act like descent human beings, not like dumb jocks in a locker room.


~L

Did you give any warnings? Did you break up the fight? Did you even contact the offenders in ANY WAY before you banned them?

They definitely deserve BAN. Why warnings? Like Miza said, it went on pages.. warnings are for mild offense. This is EXTREME offense so to speak.

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Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce

sorry, are you equating a couple guys ridiculing a woman's photo to a mugging?

Look, I'm not condoning what they did but there's got to be a point where you stop babying people and let them deal with things themselves.

The mods should have stepped in, broken up the fight and given warnings/infractions. Not bans, that was too far.

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I used mugging as an example, but now that I think about it, YES. What they did was a vile and unprovoked attack on an innocent person. No one is babying anyone, by letting them off with infractions would be babying the aggressors. So you by your standards, criminals should get a slap on the wrist and told "just don't do it again, K?".

That is what you are boiling it down to, they are lucky they didn't get permabans for their behavior.

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Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce

Did you give any warnings? Did you break up the fight? Did you even contact the offenders in ANY WAY before you banned them?

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You are actually condoning their actions, I can't believe this. You think they deserved a slap on the wrist so they can continue however they please. Also, since when does a mod need to give warnings or contact anyone before banning? Do you think maybe no mod was on at the time this all took place? Do you think the mods live online 24/7 to babysit people and make sure they behave?

"oh look, little johnny is being a bully again. Johnny, don't do that now, you play nice with the other children."

Give me a break, you talk about not babying people, yet here you are arguing for the babying of a few people who completely crossed a line and deserved their suspensions.

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Originally Posted by abracax

few people who completely crossed a line

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What are you doing with escalante?

MORALLY RIGHT OR WRONG, HE STILL BROKE THE SAME EXACT RULES

Ummm I just want to put that 75% of those comments were Knuckles and Zen bashing each other, as many people do after knowing people a while.

Anyways was it mean, harsh, uncalled for yes. Infraction worthy? Yes. However judging only on those qutes not worth a ban. A waste of the energy to swing the hammer IMO. As BBQ has stated and i will too I dont Condole their actions.

Ive been called worse then a "Stereotypical American anorexic mall-stalking chick" By random people before. My friends call me worse every day. And i do back. Is it appropriate for a forums no. If she seriously seriously affected by that she needs to get a grip. As someone said in the thread i made coplaining about someone criticizing me for being only 14 ((Which i made because the forums were dead att and i wanted to revive)) Why does what people you dont know, and will never meet think about you matter?

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Originally Posted by BBQ_Sauce

What are you doing with escalante?

MORALLY RIGHT OR WRONG, HE STILL BROKE THE SAME EXACT RULES

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No one is babying him, he is someone who actually had enough nerve to standup. In our society we reward good deeds, I see no reason he should not be rewarded for trying to stand up for someone being attacked.

See, you keep bypassing what the others did, and you focus on every little thing trying to pick it all apart. Sorry professor, that is not going to work. What they did was wrong, plane and simple. I agree with the mods 100% for the actions they did or did not take in this instance.

You want to baby the wrong doers yet punish those who tried to do the right thing. Why?

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Originally Posted by abracax

No one is babying him, he is someone who actually had enough nerve to standup. In our society we reward good deeds, I see no reason he should not be rewarded for trying to stand up for someone being attacked.

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Where the heck do you live? Over here in Jersey if you shoot some before they stab someone else you go to jail. Lesser sentence? Yes But you still get hell and more for it.

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Originally Posted by wpack10

Ummm I just want to put that 75% of those comments were Knuckles and Zen bashing each other, as many people do after knowing people a while.

Anyways was it mean, harsh, uncalled for yes. Infraction worthy? Yes. However judging only on those qutes not worth a ban. A waste of the energy to swing the hammer IMO. As BBQ has stated and i will too I dont Condole their actions.

Ive been called worse then a "Stereotypical American anorexic mall-stalking chick" By random people before. My friends call me worse every day. And i do back. Is it appropriate for a forums no. If she seriously seriously affected by that she needs to get a grip. As someone said in the thread i made coplaining about someone criticizing me for being only 14 ((Which i made because the forums were dead att and i wanted to revive)) Why does what people you dont know, and will never meet think about you matter?

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Ok, I keep double posting, I know. Wpack, people need to remember that just because it is the internet, does not mean there aren't real people on the receiving end. You and I don't know each other in RL, yet I am willing to bet I can send you PM's that would have you completely upset and most likely in tears.

Some people can ignore what others say about them, some people it hits a nerve and hurts for real. Most of that thread was Zen bashing on lyla, not on knuckles.

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Originally Posted by abracax

No one is babying him, he is someone who actually had enough nerve to standup. In our society we reward good deeds, I see no reason he should not be rewarded for trying to stand up for someone being attacked.

See, you keep bypassing what the others did, and you focus on every little thing trying to pick it all apart. Sorry professor, that is not going to work. What they did was wrong, plane and simple. I agree with the mods 100% for the actions they did or did not take in this instance.

You want to baby the wrong doers yet punish those who tried to do the right thing. Why?

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I'm not advocating you remove the bans on zenrax or milonious. I'm saying you have to ban escalante as well if you ban the previous two.

Rule breaking is rule breaking. You can't show favoritism just because he was defending someone else.

Flaming Flamingos!

BBQ, yes, I agree with you on that one thing. However, for all other things-

They deserved a ban, not a suspension. Be glad Logrus was kind enough not to hand out bannings.

They were rude, unkind, and, while they do this often, they went beyond previous restraints. The mods have looked the other way with little more than a warning and perhaps a little infraction. With this, they wounded and hurt a girl who was looking for a way to meet new people, who should have met a kind community and should have been accepted with open arms.

Instead, she was ridiculed and exiled, thrown out by two of the many users of Evony Forums.

And this is from the posts that Logrus left up, not the other posts that were there.

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Originally Posted by wpack10

Where the heck do you live? Over here in Jersey if you shoot some before they stab someone else you go to jail. Lesser sentence? Yes But you still get hell and more for it.

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I live in PA, and Jersey has the same self defense laws. You can use the amount of force being used against you to defend yourself. So a gun against a knife of course will get you jail time.

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Originally Posted by Kailrik

Flaming Flamingos!

BBQ, yes, I agree with you on that one thing. However, for all other things-

They deserved a ban, not a suspension. Be glad Logrus was kind enough not to hand out bannings.

They were rude, unkind, and, while they do this often, they went beyond previous restraints. The mods have looked the other way with little more than a warning and perhaps a little infraction. With this, they wounded and hurt a girl who was looking for a way to meet new people, who should have met a kind community and should have been accepted with open arms.

Instead, she was ridiculed and exiled, thrown out by two of the many users of Evony Forums.

And this is from the posts that Logrus left up, not the other posts that were there.

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My main point is the punishments should be streamlined across the board. Escalante did the same thing Zenrax and Milonious did so he is just as guilty. Regardless if he was defending someone or not.

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Originally Posted by abracax

Ok, I keep double posting, I know. Wpack, people need to remember that just because it is the internet, does not mean there aren't real people on the receiving end. You and I don't know each other in RL, yet I am willing to bet I can send you PM's that would have you completely upset and most likely in tears.

Some people can ignore what others say about them, some people it hits a nerve and hurts for real. Most of that thread was Zen bashing on lyla, not on knuckles.

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I always have been a little cold and uncaring of others and what they think about me. Anyways on topic I didnt see the whole so im going by what Logrus posted. So i cant really argue you there. And yeah I get the whole "Someone insulted me on the interwebz so i popped a cap in my head" thing. They told us all those news articles in catholic school. Myspace is the devil, etc. Anyways ive really never had an ounce of empathy/compassion for them. If your gonna be so affected by what others say, you wont get anywhere in life.

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Originally Posted by abracax

I live in PA, and Jersey has the same self defense laws. You can use the amount of force being used against you to defend yourself. So a gun against a knife of course will get you jail time.

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Ahh but its not self defense is it. Im no lawyer/Policemen/Whoever else is an expert on laws. But i believe that when things like this happen you are to alert the authorities so they can properly deal with it.

In fact my neighbor had this happen kind of. He was at a party, his friends got drunk, went to break into his school. He followed to stop them, grabbed them and started taking them off the property. He was arrested when the cop got there as were the rest. They got days in jail, he received 30 day house arrest. Lesser sentence but still a sentence.

In hockey its known as the 3rd man in rule. If someone starts bashing on your teamate, and you jump in, whether to pull your teammate out or kick the crud out of the other guy, you are assessed a 5 minute major and possible game misconduct.

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Originally Posted by wpack10

In hockey its known as the 3rd man in rule. If someone starts bashing on your teamate, and you jump in, whether to pull your teammate out or kick the crud out of the other guy, you are assessed a 5 minute major and possible game misconduct.

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Ah, finally a good example for my side

Ok, to settle this, you are implying BBQ that on action is equal to 6 or seven. This is basic math, and obviously not the case, Escalante said somethin offensive one time, a low level offense. Worth a warning, the others though, they said things again and again and again, worth not a warning. END OF DISCUSION.

And incoming lock. Before a counter argument is made.

No, I am not going to lock the thread.