OT Government!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Milonius

Dang those stupid bourgeoisie...

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Hey... I'm middle class! I'm not rich or poor!

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/ussr.gif

Arise, wretched of the earth
Arise, convicts of hunger
Reason thunders in its crater
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean
Enslaved masses, arise, arise
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|


There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common welfare
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|



The state oppresses and the law cheats
The tax bleeds the miserable
No duty is imposed on the rich
'Rights of the poor' is a hollow phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without obligations, it says,
And as well, no obligations without rights
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|



Hideous in their self-glorification
Kings of the mine and rail
Have they ever done anything other
Than steal work?
Into the coffers of that lot,
What work creates has melted
In demanding that they give it back
The people only wants its due.
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|


The kings make us drunk with their fumes,
Peace among ourselves, war to the tyrants!
Let the armies go on strike,
Stocks in the air, and break ranks
If these cannibals insist
On making heroes of us,
Soon they will know our bullets
Are for our own generals
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|


Labourers, peasants, we are
The great party of workers
The earth belongs only to men
The idle will go reside elsewhere
How much of our flesh they feed on,
But if the ravens and vultures
Disappear one of these days
The sun will always shine
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|

Hey... arn't they dissabanned?

Perhaps..........


:o

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Skirata

http://www.freemasonrywatch.org/pics/ussr.gif

Arise, wretched of the earth
Arise, convicts of hunger
Reason thunders in its crater
This is the eruption of the end
Of the past let us wipe the slate clean
Enslaved masses, arise, arise
The world is about to change its foundation
We are nothing, let us be all
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|


There are no supreme saviours
Neither God, nor Caesar, nor tribune.
Producers, let us save ourselves
Decree the common welfare
So that the thief expires,
So that the spirit be pulled from its prison,
Let us fan the forge ourselves
Strike the iron while it is hot
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|



The state oppresses and the law cheats
The tax bleeds the miserable
No duty is imposed on the rich
'Rights of the poor' is a hollow phrase
Enough languishing in custody
Equality wants other laws:
No rights without obligations, it says,
And as well, no obligations without rights
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|



Hideous in their self-glorification
Kings of the mine and rail
Have they ever done anything other
Than steal work?
Into the coffers of that lot,
What work creates has melted
In demanding that they give it back
The people only wants its due.
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|


The kings make us drunk with their fumes,
Peace among ourselves, war to the tyrants!
Let the armies go on strike,
Stocks in the air, and break ranks
If these cannibals insist
On making heroes of us,
Soon they will know our bullets
Are for our own generals
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|


Labourers, peasants, we are
The great party of workers
The earth belongs only to men
The idle will go reside elsewhere
How much of our flesh they feed on,
But if the ravens and vultures
Disappear one of these days
The sun will always shine
|: This is the final struggle
Let us group together, and tomorrow
The Internationale
Will be the human race :|

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ahh thanks. now i have a headache

The bourgeoisie socio-political appellation [social rank] was a necessary component for the development of history. I shall demonstrate with two main examples:

The core of the Aristotelian concept of politeia or that of a commonwealth that was carried onto Platonic philosophy as well as the concept of the Roman political state or the Mos Maiorum consisted of all the stratifications within the middle class range; far removed from the vulgarities and irrationality of the lower classes and equally distant from the abuses and excesses of the pentacosiomedimnoi [upper Athenian appellation/social rank] and patricians [upper Roman class within the social hierarchy]. In essence, the key to government equipollence or a balance/moderation of affairs as well as the maintenance of stability/equilibrium and economic prosperity was the middle class ; the edifice of social order was the bourgeoisie in regards to the Classical Athenian and Roman Republic periods. Populist modes of government without any form of restraint led to the rise of demagogues and internal chaos. With petty squabbles and internal division, the rabble unrestrained would sow the seeds of future chaos and turmoil. The same occurs if power is invested within an oligarchic foundation or single-man rule leading to despotism.

During the reign of Louis-Philippe I of the House of Bourbon-Orleans from 1830-1848 C.E [July Monarchy], there was an attempt of abolishing feudal rights, attempts at modernization and increasing the plebiscite and the number of deputies allowed to participate within the National Convention and the parlement [judicial] systems. The legislative branch within the Orleanist rule created a more stable mode of government by limiting the central authority of the sovereign and allowing for a more horizontal distribution of power as opposed to the vertical model in which all elements of society solely existed for the self-gratification of the sovereign. The Orleanist tradition was flawed in such aspects as it gave very little political autonomy to the common laborers as opposed to the considerable powers of the oligarchs and the wealthy, however, it was an improvement from absolutist modes of government. The future growth of the middle class led to more healthy forms of competition, greater toleration as well as a balancing effect between the upper/patrician class and the lower/plebeian class.

In essence, the concept of the "rule of the bourgeoisie" was necessary for the development of more integrated and amalgamated forms of government to emerge such as the modern concepts of representative democracies, etc.

Thus, it is wrong to comprehend the significance of the bourgeoisie throughout the collectivity of the historical consciousness that is dynamic and volatile as irrelevant or one of total negativity. The posts before me in regards to the "perfect state" and/or the "utopian state" are irrational, misleading and chimerical [fanciful].

To state that the bourgeoisie had no positive impact(s) within the progression of history is to show little understanding/poor comprehension of general history through socio-political, economic and cultural elements as well as demonstrating a considerable amount of ignorance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski

The bourgeoisie socio-political appellation [social rank] was a necessary component for the development of history. I shall demonstrate with two main examples:

The core of the Aristotelian concept of politeia or that of a commonwealth that was carried onto Platonic philosophy as well as the concept of the Roman political state or the Mos Maiorum consisted of all the stratifications within the middle class range; far removed from the vulgarities and irrationality of the lower classes and equally distant from the abuses and excesses of the pentacosiomedimnoi [upper Athenian appellation/social rank] and patricians [upper Roman class within the social hierarchy]. In essence, the key to government equipollence or a balance/moderation of affairs as well as the maintenance of stability/equilibrium and economic prosperity was the middle class ; the edifice of social order was the bourgeoisie in regards to the Classical Athenian and Roman Republic periods. Populist modes of government without any form of restraint led to the rise of demagogues and internal chaos. With petty squabbles and internal division, the rabble unrestrained would sow the seeds of future chaos and turmoil. The same occurs if power is invested within an oligarchic foundation or single-man rule leading to despotism.

During the reign of Louis-Philippe I of the House of Bourbon-Orleans from 1830-1848 C.E [July Monarchy], there was an attempt of abolishing feudal rights, attempts at modernization and increasing the plebiscite and the number of deputies allowed to participate within the National Convention and the parlement [judicial] systems. The legislative branch within the Orleanist rule created a more stable mode of government by limiting the central authority of the sovereign and allowing for a more horizontal distribution of power as opposed to the vertical model in which all elements of society solely existed for the self-gratification of the sovereign. The Orleanist tradition was flawed in such aspects as it gave very little political autonomy to the common laborers as opposed to the considerable powers of the oligarchs and the wealthy, however, it was an improvement from absolutist modes of government. The future growth of the middle class led to more healthy forms of competition, greater toleration as well as a balancing effect between the upper/patrician class and the lower/plebeian class.

In essence, the concept of the "rule of the bourgeoisie" was necessary for the development of more integrated and amalgamated forms of government to emerge such as the modern concepts of representative democracies, etc.

Thus, it is wrong to comprehend the significance of the bourgeoisie throughout the collectivity of the historical consciousness that is dynamic and volatile as irrelevant or one of total negativity. The posts before me in regards to the "perfect state" and/or the "utopian state" are irrational, misleading and chimerical [fanciful].

To state that the bourgeoisie had no positive impact(s) within the progression of history is to show little understanding/poor comprehension of general history through socio-political, economic and cultural elements as well as demonstrating a considerable amount of ignorance.

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Pardon??

*faints*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tricky Boy

Pardon??

*faints*

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lol I had that reaction too the first time I read one of his posts. It makes sense, although you might need to borrow my dictionary. I find I need it when reading Conrad's posts.

There's to many words with more than 4 letters :p j/k

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski

The bourgeoisie socio-political appellation [social rank] was a necessary component for the development of history. I shall demonstrate with two main examples:

The core of the Aristotelian concept of politeia or that of a commonwealth that was carried onto Platonic philosophy as well as the concept of the Roman political state or the Mos Maiorum consisted of all the stratifications within the middle class range; far removed from the vulgarities and irrationality of the lower classes and equally distant from the abuses and excesses of the pentacosiomedimnoi [upper Athenian appellation/social rank] and patricians [upper Roman class within the social hierarchy]. In essence, the key to government equipollence or a balance/moderation of affairs as well as the maintenance of stability/equilibrium and economic prosperity was the middle class ; the edifice of social order was the bourgeoisie in regards to the Classical Athenian and Roman Republic periods. Populist modes of government without any form of restraint led to the rise of demagogues and internal chaos. With petty squabbles and internal division, the rabble unrestrained would sow the seeds of future chaos and turmoil. The same occurs if power is invested within an oligarchic foundation or single-man rule leading to despotism.

During the reign of Louis-Philippe I of the House of Bourbon-Orleans from 1830-1848 C.E [July Monarchy], there was an attempt of abolishing feudal rights, attempts at modernization and increasing the plebiscite and the number of deputies allowed to participate within the National Convention and the parlement [judicial] systems. The legislative branch within the Orleanist rule created a more stable mode of government by limiting the central authority of the sovereign and allowing for a more horizontal distribution of power as opposed to the vertical model in which all elements of society solely existed for the self-gratification of the sovereign. The Orleanist tradition was flawed in such aspects as it gave very little political autonomy to the common laborers as opposed to the considerable powers of the oligarchs and the wealthy, however, it was an improvement from absolutist modes of government. The future growth of the middle class led to more healthy forms of competition, greater toleration as well as a balancing effect between the upper/patrician class and the lower/plebeian class.

In essence, the concept of the "rule of the bourgeoisie" was necessary for the development of more integrated and amalgamated forms of government to emerge such as the modern concepts of representative democracies, etc.

Thus, it is wrong to comprehend the significance of the bourgeoisie throughout the collectivity of the historical consciousness that is dynamic and volatile as irrelevant or one of total negativity. The posts before me in regards to the "perfect state" and/or the "utopian state" are irrational, misleading and chimerical [fanciful].

To state that the bourgeoisie had no positive impact(s) within the progression of history is to show little understanding/poor comprehension of general history through socio-political, economic and cultural elements as well as demonstrating a considerable amount of ignorance.

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You have a well structured argument although it is one that is built wholly from it's own axioms. You say that "Significant Historical Situation" was necessary for "Actual History". The concept that you can remove any element of history and retain history as it is recorded is nonsensical. You can't argue for or against something on the basis of it's "contribution" to history for there is no way to compare the modern result of history without it.

I suppose in some ways it is a bit like evolution, is our tailbone something you could take out and still have modern day human? It certainly serves no purpose now, but it is not really something you can say for certain is something removable.