NPC10 farming - not cost effective

I don't farm lvl 10 NPCs that often...BUT I have captured four of them and I will hit five of them tomorrow hopefully. I love capturing except for the SERIOUS need for dynamite to build my 12-15 barracks!

Other than that I may hit one once in awhile for a quick food hit...but I also have the soldiers to do it. I would not recommend hitting a lvl 10 NPC for a newbie with only like 2 or 3 cities...

Just my tidbit...

Sparky

P.S. - It would be nice to grab a lvl 10 NPC early in the game though!:cool:

lots of people are talking about heavy losses. but if you do this long enough, in no time, due to you fighting these, it would go away fast. i actually attacked one today with a hero that has 137 attack. i had never used a corselet war ensign or war horn, so i used all of them. i lost 8k archers. and i didnt even have a lv 10 rally spot lv 10 medicine or full fodder. heavy losses does not apply

ok cool. what are your compass and other research lvls? im maxed out at 10 on all my research and some people have been telling me that that hurts me because of my speed of my troops, mainly hrsbck riding and compass which as i said are 10

you shouldve made it BUYING the wood and iron, not SELLING it.

I am farming the NPCs mainly for the hero exp...nice being able to level him up a lvl or 2 for every hit. and yes hv to do it at a mix of npc10 and npc5....

Of coz I don't apply any modifier when I hit NPC10....I lost 8-10k archers and I guess modifiers only help me reduce that loss by 1-2k ...definitely not worth it considering I can make 1-2k archers in a few minutes.

1.8 million points for hero who can build troops extremely fast when over 200 attack...At that point archer losses are in the 5-6000 range. Big deal.

The 5s give almost zip in points for heroes.

I also have to hit 10+ 10NPCs a day and with a round trip of one half hour for most cities is efficient.

well i think tonight may be my first attempt at a level 10 i will post results. my hero has a attack of 125 right now so i will use war horn to make sure i don't lose any more then necessary. any other advice my rally spot is level 10 and i have the thing to send 25 percent more troops should i use it or save it and just send the 92k archers and 3k warriors and workers along with 2k transports. i dont care to much about archer loss any more i make like 40k a day now so thats no big deal to me

ok did it was not to bad and i was able to do 2 of them in about 30 mins so i got a lot of food very fast plus i sent out like 3 level 5 attacks at the same time so i will say its cost effectiveness may not be high but its convenience is off the charts any ways here is the report and my hero only has a attack of 123 when i started now its 135 so it helped to level him pretty quick as well
battle56.evony.com/default.html?logfile/20091019/da/62/da624f90bdb2d3b0c9bfc9ddc4c6517e.xml

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Originally Posted by gungadin

1.8 million points for hero who can build troops extremely fast when over 200 attack...At that point archer losses are in the 5-6000 range. Big deal.

The 5s give almost zip in points for heroes.

I also have to hit 10+ 10NPCs a day and with a round trip of one half hour for most cities is efficient.

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That's the one.
I send my hero to attack two NPC10s and I gain a lv. I lose around 10~18k archers for those two attacks.
I can have 20k+ archers easly trained before the resources regen after the 8 hour cooldown.

At least having to rebuild the archers keeps the prestige ticking over on the days when there's nothing to do.

what are your compass and other research lvls? im maxed out at 10 on all my research and some people have been telling me that that hurts me because of my speed of my troops, mainly hrsbck riding and compass which as i said are 10

I have to agree that there are more efficiencies to battle with than just cost efficiency. More than time efficiency though, I have not seen the efficiency of realestate discussed. Unfortunately your numbers only work in an infinite system where there is no competition for resources and return on investment is immediate. Evony is an extremely finite system where there is limited resources, competition, and time contstraints. Since the time contraint portion of the argument has already been covered, I'll address the finite resources portion.

In a situation where you have a limited number of plots and people vying for those plots, it is better to fill them with level 10s if you can farm them due to 2 reasons:

1) If you have a limited number of times you can farm, it is better to farm the marginally more cost effective per-run farm. In this case level 10s are nearly 2x as effecient as level 5s. And with limited resource allocation, it means it is twice as desireable to have a level 10 on a spot than it is to have a level 5; especially considering you probalby won't be the only one trying to farm the area.

Which leads to point number 2:

2) It is much harder to farm a level 10 as opposed to a level 5. Therefore those who can actually farm the level 10s have more control of the resources and thus have more effecient acquisition. In my case, less than half of my Level 5s in any given day ever produce the full amount of resources. Which means I have to launch additional attacks to make the same amount of resources. However, Level 10s are almost never farmed by my neighbors, making the return on investment for building one much higher.

In this case farming the level 10s is also a better plan because of the marginal gain principal. IE if marginal gain increases due to a changed action given a limited number of actions, then as many actions should be changed as can whlie still increasing marginal cost. The meaning here is, every attack that you could make against a level 10 NPC rather than a level 5 NPC should be made given that your resources in whole increase.

Your numbers are good, but like most thoeritical number excercises, as you also admit, they make some poor assumptions about availability of resources in a finite system. The specifics in this case are level 5s are heavily farmed by everyone and thus give significantly lower than ideal returns (around 50% lower in practice) while level 10s amost always give returns in line with the ideal expectation.

Whats better hitting 9 lvl 10 npcs like you would lvl 5, or 9 lvl 5 npcs? i use 4500 warriors, and they are instant when your hero is high enough. archers take 20 seconds each. so if i have 150 barraks then it takes me around 14 minutes to rebuild them.

I'll jus' go back to the exp thing.
There are a lot more than savin' time on retrains.

Especially when youre hero is that high, 100k exp from an NPC5 is a pittance.

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Originally Posted by Lancelot11

what are your compass and other research lvls? im maxed out at 10 on all my research and some people have been telling me that that hurts me because of my speed of my troops, mainly hrsbck riding and compass which as i said are 10

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compass should be at 9 that's the only one i have herd will hurt you is at 10 the troops are to fast and you lose more but most of my stuff is at 9 right now and my attack was successful i only lost roughly 11k archers i can build about 40k archers a day right now and when my attack hero gets a little higher i will be able to make way more so the losses are acceptable for me. plus your archer losses go down as your hero gets more attack expo

I have got to say that I agree with you except with one thing. It is true about what you say except there is one thing you gain with lvl10's but not lvl 5's... Prestige from the attack. So what do you think everyone? Would you rather go with the more resources from lvl 5's or would you go with the prestige gain that makes you more fearsome and gives o you a less chance of being plundered by everyone???
Give me your ideas.

Over and Out
-Mission

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Originally Posted by mission

I have got to say that I agree with you except with one thing. It is true about what you say except there is one thing you gain with lvl10's but not lvl 5's... Prestige from the attack. So what do you think everyone? Would you rather go with the more resources from lvl 5's or would you go with the prestige gain that makes you more fearsome and gives o you a less chance of being plundered by everyone???
Give me your ideas.

Over and Out
-Mission

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i don't care one way or the other about prestige i like the hero expo gained and the fact i hit 3 last night and did not have to farm level 5's at all today

NPC level 10s also give close to 2m exp so it is the only good way to level up your hero compared to level 5s giving 90k.

Personally i think the original poster is missing the point of hitting level 10 NPCs

I have not been playing Evony long and i do not consider myself to be an expert. But i am at the stage where i am farming level 10s from multiple cities. I spent a long time sending out 9-10 waves of Ballista/transporters from all of my cities and farmed 60-70 Level 5 NPCs every day. This is incredibly time consuming and frustrating when you want to level up your heroes.

With Level 10s it is quicker, i am getting a 100% medal/treasure drop (even received 2 in one attack once), i get to boost my heroes and produce troops quicker and i get prestige for my efforts as well.

I don't quite understand the fuss about replacing troops. I lose 6.5-7k archers, 1k swords, 1k pikes, 1k warriors and 1k scouts. Thats about 8-9 hours of building for me in one city. I also don't see how this uses up most of the 19 million food i loot. And, people who are hitting level 10s generally have so many troops that they aren't in any particular hurry to replace those they lost.

I think it is quite simple, either you are ready to farm level 10s or you are not. If you don't feel it is cost effective or you fear the troop loss then you are simply not ready to attack them, just stick to hitting level 5s until you 'need' to move across to level 10s