unit efficiency

I think i've found a way to find the value of a military unit.
let me know if this works for you guys-
These r the values for different units:
Works=1.8e9 (they suck but they're good as targets for AT's)
Warrs=4e10 (meatshields. they r only meant for tht)
Scouts=1.2e10 (the high speed is THE ONLY reason for them getting even this high)
Pikes=4.05e12 (faster than swords at least)
Swords=2.165625e12 (cool atk and def...sad range)
Archers=1.125e13 (its this high coz their range owns)
Cavs=2.25e14 (fast. good at rockfall diversion)
Phracts=5.88e14 (AT-killers. high life and def)
Trans=3.15e12 (the name says it all)
Balls'=1.12896e14 (awesome range and atk)
BatRams=6.48e14 (abnormally high life)
Catapults=5.184e14 (highest range and atk)

The 'e14' or whatever else no depicts 10^14 or whatever else.
Whichever unit has the highest value should own. However there is also something called the efficiency of a unit which i'll give you guys in a few days.
Until then, try this formula. But do NOT throw away your atk-def-life ideas. this formula has not been tried or tested. pl reply to see the results.

Found the efficiency, but the other way around, the lower the figures r, the better. it basically gives you the value you r getting for your food spent:
Works=.02935
Warrs=.045
Scouts=.06935
Pikes=.06172
Swords=.0685
Arcs=.073115
Cavs=.08746
Phracts=.10454
Transees=.08001
Blsts=.1209
BatRams=.13502
C-pults=.16296

As you can see, workers r the most efficient and catapults r not.
HOWEVER, you also need to know why the efficiency is low(then the number is actually high. for example warriors have high efc since they take only 3 food and hv 50 atk, but archers take 9 food but they hv a much more useful ability; range. this applies for all other units. try this out.

anyone wanna know how i got these results? the calcs r up for grabs! if anyone wants them, post it here.

Yaya, yes...
But in the real world of Evony, Archers "R" the best.:p

I posted a thread with this information couple days ago.
Went into a lot more detail I think too.

Please try and look around to see if anyone has done a guide like the one you're going to post before doing so...

Double posts are abundant because people don't check

Here it is:

http://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=86331

Feel free to add this info to it if you want.

here's how it works:
The army value is actually a simple multiplication of the parameters of a unit except the population required.
The efficiency is calculated by this
log (food per hour) to the base of (army value)

As for Tybalt, I saw the thread. Very impressive AND useful. However I am using a generalized formula, while you r paying attention to specialized attribs of the units, i pay attention to all of them.
Eg. A ballista is powerful and has long range but is slow.
A scout is useless as a combat unit but awesome for rapid-fire atk on low-walled villages and towns.
A batram has awesome life but eats 100(F!) food per hour.
The same logic applies for all units.

The case with archers:
They will die a horrible death if there is no meatshield, however WITH a meatshield, they r very close to the best.
Also Tybalt, you hv taken the sum of all resources.
Problem with tht is ...on my server iron costs 15 gold but stone costs .4 gold.
So a simple summation of resources like tht is not really effective. However, replace the "resources" with food per hour. It'll be way more useful(just a suggestion).
If you still think i'm an idiot, post it here and let me see wt i can do abt it!:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hellkeeper

here's how it works:
The army value is actually a simple multiplication of the parameters of a unit except the population required.
The efficiency is calculated by this
log (food per hour) to the base of (army value)

As for Tybalt, I saw the thread. Very impressive AND useful. However I am using a generalized formula, while you r paying attention to specialized attribs of the units, i pay attention to all of them.
Eg. A ballista is powerful and has long range but is slow.
A scout is useless as a combat unit but awesome for rapid-fire atk on low-walled villages and towns.
A batram has awesome life but eats 100(F!) food per hour.
The same logic applies for all units.

The case with archers:
They will die a horrible death if there is no meatshield, however WITH a meatshield, they r very close to the best.
Also Tybalt, you hv taken the sum of all resources.
Problem with tht is ...on my server iron costs 15 gold but stone costs .4 gold.
So a simple summation of resources like tht is not really effective. However, replace the "resources" with food per hour. It'll be way more useful(just a suggestion).
If you still think i'm an idiot, post it here and let me see wt i can do abt it!:)

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Did you look at the entire thread?

There is a section that includes attack and range for unit ratings as well as resource/efficiency ratings.

Also, you said you used a logarithmic formula?

Well if you know anything about logarithmic functions you would know that the natural base of a log is 10.

Ex.

Log10(3) = 1000

In variable terms: 3 = y, 10 = b, and 1000 =x

and

x = b^y

Therefore, if you are trying to use this mathematical function as a determining factor for unit efficiency, you need to be very careful where you plug in the numbers.

You can't just do Log 1 to the base 2 and come up with a value for warriors whilst doing log 9 to the base 6 for archers and expect the values to be respective to each other in terms of efficiency.

I'm just saying I hope you knew what you were doing instead of just throwing a bunch of numbers together.

Either way, kudos on the effort.

The only reason i did tht was since log(anything under 50)=something close to 1.
This means tht the nos. wud differ only in the 2nd or 3rd decimal place,giving figures tht made themselves a relative scale for each other.:D

There is another reason for me using log in my calcs. If you have noticed, the values of the units are REALLY large(in the order of trillions and quadrillions),so, using log would be effective in making quick work of the -e(x) part.:)

I don't need to run some special mathematical algorithm to know
warriors are the most efficient unit on Evony

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hellkeeper

There is another reason for me using log in my calcs. If you have noticed, the values of the units are REALLY large(in the order of trillions and quadrillions),so, using log would be effective in making quick work of the -e(x) part.:)

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Logarithmic Functions don't make it easier to convert large numbers into scientific notation...

You could just do Y x 10 ^ Z

Quote:

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Originally Posted by A3Online

I don't need to run some special mathematical algorithm to know
warriors are the most efficient unit on Evony

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No offense to anyone in particular:D, but in my situation(with archery and Mtrad lv 10) i could kill off 1 mil warriors with 200K archers.
Here's the catch:1 mil warriors=3 mil food...200K archers=1.8mil food. for 1.8 mil food, I have a better army than wt i would have if i spent 3 mil. However, warriors can be made instantly(or at least close) while archers take a long time but since the time numbers keep on changing, i did not take it into consideration tht factor.

THE ARMY VALUE AND EFFICIENCY OF A UNIT CHANGES WITH RESEARCH. WT I HAVE DONE IS GIVE YOU THE BASE STATS.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hellkeeper

No offense to anyone in particular:D, but in my situation(with archery and Mtrad lv 10) i could kill off 1 mil warriors with 200K archers.

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you could be right for your situation
and I don't see the point in bringing up a situation that will likely never happen

can anyone admit with proof they seen a town with ONLY 1 mil warriors which they attacked? doubtful

if your only basing your unit efficiency off of resources then you miss the point of what makes a unit efficient.

It's always nice to see people making the effort, but this is a waste of time really though isn't it... If i am reading the figures correctly workers (which are of no value whatsoever once you have transports - warriors are more appropriate fodder) are more efficient than archers? Surely when wave after wave of workers get murdered by significantly fewer archers, and the archers survive, that would make the archers more efficient?

Ballista are one of the least efficient... But when food is freely available you can replace your ATs with Ballista and have high numbers of traps and abatis that are difficult to remove.

Scouts are also a very effective combat unit...

i have no interest in what i get for my food, i only care about what i get.

You do not read full posts do you?
The army value of a worker is 1.8e9. tht is terribly low so even if the efficiency is high, they r not useful. the only reson they r even tht high is coz of the 200 load and the relatively high speed.(faster than ballistae or transports):p

so... if you're gonna apply a log to some variables that you multiplied together, that's the same as just adding them.

So instead, just make a weighted average.

It seems like most (all?) of the posters here don't really understand the arithmetic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mulch

so... if you're gonna apply a log to some variables that you multiplied together, that's the same as just adding them.

So instead, just make a weighted average.

It seems like most (all?) of the posters here don't really understand the arithmetic.

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I have a degree in Mathematical Engineering and Analytical Calculus.

But you're probably right, none of us understand arithmetic.

@_@

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hellkeeper

The 'e14' or whatever else no depicts 10^14 or whatever else.

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I won't quibble with the math only the presentation, it would be nice if your sentences were not syntactical nonsense. I have no idea what you wrote above and I would like too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hellkeeper

Works=1.8e9 (they suck but they're good as targets for AT's)
Warrs=4e10 (meatshields. they r only meant for tht)
Scouts=1.2e10 (the high speed is THE ONLY reason for them getting even this high)
Pikes=4.05e12 (faster than swords at least)
Swords=2.165625e12 (cool atk and def...sad range)
Archers=1.125e13 (its this high coz their range owns)
Cavs=2.25e14 (fast. good at rockfall diversion)
Phracts=5.88e14 (AT-killers. high life and def)
Trans=3.15e12 (the name says it all)
Balls'=1.12896e14 (awesome range and atk)
BatRams=6.48e14 (abnormally high life)
Catapults=5.184e14 (highest range and atk)

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Why cant you just set the exponent of all these to the same value and then drop it? There are only five orders of magnitude difference between the smallest and the largest. The visual impression of the numbers would then convey almost as much information as the actual values.

Guess what I learnt ...

I did some clever calculations...took me about say...15 seconds?

I used a simple equation....

wanna know it?
..
here!!!


YOU + (TOO MUCH SPARE TIME x EVONY) = LIFE WASTERS + MAJOR(loser)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bang D Drums

Guess what I learnt ...

I did some clever calculations...took me about say...15 seconds?

I used a simple equation....

wanna know it?
..
here!!!


YOU + (TOO MUCH SPARE TIME x EVONY) = LIFE WASTERS + MAJOR(loser)

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wouldnt it be hilarious if they had values such as 1, and 3.5...then you truly will have wasted your life! Use your degrees for something useful

The information in this post looks interesting and the big mathematical figures are sure to dazzle and awe-strike some people, but the actual usefulness of these figures is minimal at best. You're trying to project the 'goodness' of the units onto a single dimensional scale, and since, even just reading the guide, battlereports, or help forums for 5 minutes, you can find that strategy and tactics of what units you send make a tremendous difference. The battle system is a multidimensional system, you can't make a single dimensional projection and expect to not lose vital information. Even in general, if you add together these unit values and come up with armies based on them you won't find a real pattern that makes a remotely accurate representation of what happens because the stats of units work so differently its impossible to rate them on a scale of "this unit is X times better than some other unit". Unfortunately it means that the efficiency values are flawed too because they are based on the faulty rating system.

Dudes, I'm not sure if anyone posted this yet because I'm so lazy, but archers and cataphracts are the best.
Ballistas are good for ATs and NPCs, but they eat too much food and are too slow. You only send them against wall defences, and even then if they are really close or you don't mind the time.

There is no 'best' troop so to say, since almost all troops counteract each other (to some extent). Although, I do agree that archers and phracts are really really good at taking out troops. Warriors aren't just meat shields, and scouts are good for reasons other than speed. Thats all I'm saying on the subject. Look the rest up.

this tread is pointless and unnessesary. practs suck untill ur attack with 90k plus units the calcs are all weird and hard to follow and u have wars being better then pikes in the 1 even though they are easily twice as strong. boo this thread

thanks guy/s