A Solution to Poverty in America

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Originally Posted by Rota

It's just another currency. I say "stamp"s for prices, because that's a familiar term for buying food. It could just as well be a rabfar, or a shmendrick. The name of the currency really doesn't matter. :)

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Oh I thought you meant like a wee card you get stamped when you buy food. And you have a specific bit of space etc.

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Originally Posted by WN1 Hit

Well im just a trained doctor at CU University that just transfered to ARI.

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I'm not saying your stupid, or could not understand it. But, could you teach me all the intricacies of the endocrine system in a couple of forum posts? You could give me the basics, but I wouldn't be able to operate on someone after reading just a few forum posts on any medical subject. There was no need for you to perceive my "I don't plan on teaching" comment as a personal attack.

:D i know. Ill rep you for your great "solution" to solving poverty though. Congratz.

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Originally Posted by BigBlugga

That was a very well thought out and formulated plan.

If only there was away to get this to the right people.

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I would love to get a job in one of those DC think tanks. I think if this idea and a few other ideas I have got kicked around in there, then the idea could really get fleshed out. But you cannot get those kind of jobs without knowing someone. I know noone. :(

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Originally Posted by woody513

The decision would have to be voted on. A democracy can't just force a new system down their citizens throats.

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Of course. This is just a plan that would need to be sold to the public. I'm sure if this was put in to law, the bill would rival the NYC phonebook in sheer size.

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Originally Posted by Rota

1) Poverty is not just a problem. It is THE problem.

I?m not saying that it?s the only problem in the world, but it?s the largest problem. Poverty feeds every hurdle that humankind wants to overcome. Go ahead, think of an issue, any issue. Poverty exacerbates the problem, I bet. Pick a disease. I guarantee the rate of affected people is higher among the poor. Look at crime rates. How many more robberies and such do the poor commit than people from well-off families? There is just no sin or vice or evil in this world that is not worse in poor neighborhoods.

The bottom line here is that poverty makes all of societies ills even worse. That?s hard to deny.


2) Where does poverty come from?

Poverty comes from differences in buying power. Someone can have hundreds of thousands of dollars in various savings and investments, but no job. Someone can have very little savings, but an excellent income in their job. Someone can have a decent job with good income and some decent savings, but not a phenomenal amount of either. The point is that these three people could arguably have the same amount of buying power in the world. So accumulated wealth, or some number on your income statement can?t define poverty. Income affects potential future earnings to allow for loans, investments generate wealth without any number showing up as income until the investment is sold. The sources of buying power can vary.

Now let?s take 4 imaginary people. They have no money and no savings and the entire economy consists of only those 4 people. We give them each $100 to start this imaginary economy. Which one is poor? None of them are poor. They all have $100 of buying power. Now we let them live for a few weeks or months and they trade with each other for goods and services. Remember, there is only a total of $400 in this imaginary economy. After a few months, do you think they will all have $100 still? Of course, that won?t happen. In an experiment, one person ended up with about $210 while the others had $110, $50, and $30. Because the $250 person has more buying power, prices of general goods tend to go up. The average buying power is $100, and let?s says a fair price of an apple would be $1 for someone with $100. But since the $250 is willing to pay $2 for that apple, then supply/demand rules make the price $2 since someone is willing to pay that. This means the $30 person must spend 6.7% of their wealth for an apple instead of 3.3%. Since they can?t afford to sacrifice that much of their wealth for the apple, they must go hungry for the day, which leads to health risks. Whenever commerce happens, a wealth gap is generated. It?s an inevitability that will happen every time. That?s capitalism, and it?s not going away anytime soon. If you don?t like a free market, then this is not a thread for you. The ?good? from a free market system far outweighs the ?evils.

The bottom line is, if everyone has the same buying power, there is no poverty. As the wealth gap grows, then we create a ?poor? class. Therefore, the source of poverty is the wealth gap.

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So let me get this straight...you think that some crack head who never applied themselves to anything should receive the same buying power as someone who's driven themselves to be successful all their life? Then why should ANYONE bother working any harder than the crack head? Greed may seem evil on the surface, but it is a part of human nature to try to do the best for yourself and your family that you can, but one persons idea of 'best' may be material wealth, and the others idea may be maximum leisure time (unemployment) but what you propose is distributing the wealth generated by those who do equally with those who do not (Most people think in terms of have and have not, and that is a significant part of the problem). If excelling has no particular reward, then why bother? Then what you have in result is not equal wealth, but equal poverty. No solution that doesn't deal with the basic nature of man (what's in it for ME) is destined to fail miserably. I find it intriguing that Marx condemned religion as the "opiate of the people" when the kind of economic system he advocated never worked except in the early Christian Church (see the Book of Acts). In that context, the people involved put spiritual wellbeing above material gain, but once again, they saw a personal benefit. Without a personal benefit, no one will work altruistically to the betterment of their fellow man unless they get something out of it. Is Poverty THE major contributing factor to the ills of humanity? No doubt, but in the Macrocosm, the result of what you suggest is the same as in the Microcosm, where the crack head, instead of trying to clean himself up and get a job, breaks into his neighbors house to steal his big screen TV because he can't afford to go buy one and thinks he deserves one just as much. Theft is theft, whether committed by a crack head or the government.

^ As has been stated a few times, it is a dual system with only the basic food allowance provided by stamps. People would work for money to pay for the luxuries of life, including better foods. This plan is not a panacea to cure all the problems in the world and it does not alter the fundamentals of a capitalist system.

One more thing. Punctuation helps.

Rodri beat me to it. :) Thanks, Rodri

I think you need to re-read the entire proposal, CW. People still need to work for a living, and capitalism is alive and well. This proposal merely takes food(a vital survival need) out of the budget.

P.S. The "return" key can be your friend, if you let it.

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Originally Posted by Rota

1) There will be no price fixing. No government entity will be setting food prices. The stamp prices of food will be allowed to fluctuate to fit the laws of supply and demand. Competition will be alive and well.

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This isn't really my area of expertise so Im slightly confused with your explanation (only know the basics slightly) but I think I've got the gist of it. (It would help me understand it better if an example of how the competition would work:))

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Originally Posted by Rota

2) The Fed already determines their interest rate in the best interest of the country. They aren't always right, :p but they genuinely have the best intentions. I'm saying this same council make the decision about how many stamps to buy back each month or week. I believe they can make the decision that's in the best interest of the country. I don't buy into the criminal control theory. In the early eighties an organization tried to corner the gold market. All they succeeded in doing was spiking the price for a few years, and bankrupting themselves.

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Lol this question was probably a thought brought up from watching to many movies :p. It's probably the reason why I buy into the big criminal things. since it's your plan I can understand you leaving this potential factor out (well at least a potential factor in my mind).

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Originally Posted by CWFoster (Fostrovia)

So let me get this straight...you think that some crack head who never applied themselves to anything should receive the same buying power as someone who's driven themselves to be successful all their life? Then why should ANYONE bother working any harder than the crack head? Greed may seem evil on the surface, but it is a part of human nature to try to do the best for yourself and your family that you can, but one persons idea of 'best' may be material wealth, and the others idea may be maximum leisure time (unemployment) but what you propose is distributing the wealth generated by those who do equally with those who do not (Most people think in terms of have and have not, and that is a significant part of the problem). If excelling has no particular reward, then why bother? Then what you have in result is not equal wealth, but equal poverty. No solution that doesn't deal with the basic nature of man (what's in it for ME) is destined to fail miserably. I find it intriguing that Marx condemned religion as the "opiate of the people" when the kind of economic system he advocated never worked except in the early Christian Church (see the Book of Acts). In that context, the people involved put spiritual wellbeing above material gain, but once again, they saw a personal benefit. Without a personal benefit, no one will work altruistically to the betterment of their fellow man unless they get something out of it. Is Poverty THE major contributing factor to the ills of humanity? No doubt, but in the Macrocosm, the result of what you suggest is the same as in the Microcosm, where the crack head, instead of trying to clean himself up and get a job, breaks into his neighbors house to steal his big screen TV because he can't afford to go buy one and thinks he deserves one just as much. Theft is theft, whether committed by a crack head or the government.

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*Yawn*

I don't see you coming up with anything.

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Originally Posted by Rota

The forest may flourish overall, but there's always going to be a few trees that get hurt or even die in the process. :(

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That is unfortunately always a main point in any plan to make a certain mass problem..............