Sacrifice

[imnothere]

it disappears if it is not fed, tended. love is like a flower that could bloom forever. if ever the peddles wilt it is because one or more of its creators have neglected to tend it. is this then the sacrifice for love? to tend a blossom that it may retain its loveliness all year round?
yet again is it such a sacrifice? i maintain that it should not be, and only becomes so for me if i am the only one tending the flower. how many years of solitary botany should one endure?

[LaoOmologo]

Yes, but then you sacrifice for example being with your friends, or any other things that are important for you

[imnothere]

but then it is not for a love that is a live. and i sacrifice for the memory of love. the memory of love can not sustain one for long. 5 years at best.

[LaoOmologo]

WHY DO YOU HAVE TO BE SO DEEP!!?!?!?!?!?! lol no I'm kidding.

But you will sacrifice either off them anyways

[Cosmic Fury]

alright let me throw a kink in it then.

everyone says that love is sacrifice. that you must sacrifice for love. how can this be so if its only a sacrifice if you dont want to give it up. if you give something up for love is it really that hard to do? doesnt it come naturally? which then makes it not a sacrifice. right. so you can never really sacrifice for love because if you are doing it for love then you are doing it because you love the other person more then what you are giveing up. and love would never ask you to give more then you could easily give so if its easy to give its not a sacrifice.

am i right.

You give yourself to the one you truly love. I don't think that a guy would just give his own being to a total stranger.

What you sacrifice for love is your freedom

You sacrifice not just your freedom, but your exclusive ownership of your soul...

That's a part of it, only. Plus, some may not necessarily see that as a big sacrifice. The biggest sacrifice you make when you're in love is placing your love and trust in someone, knowing full well that as much as they love you, they can break your heart, sometimes not even intentionally.

Yes, I agree with that wholeheartedly...

When you bind yourself to someone you love, then only the other person can break that tie, if your "love" isn't out of any selfishness of the heart...

[Conrad_Jalowski]

Love and desires for the sublime and beautiful through aesthetics allow the human individual to transcend from the vulgarity of human existence and the obsequious bondage that binds collective humanity to indefinite darkness. Love and aesthetic beauty in its sensual and "wild" form is to be caressed by sweet reason and ratiocination. Through the immersion in aesthetic principles and values, the human individual will incessantly seek for immortal and divine truth. Also, the similitudes, patterns, correlations, values, and structures of the creative will and of the universal laws of Nature would be subsumed into a universal classificatory scheme* or categorization.

*[An enveloping fold that embraces the totality of human existence with the virtuous and sublime interlocked with the dilapidated, false and painful; of hubris and irresolution mixed with the good. A universal or absolute system of aesthetic laws and principles would act in opposition to a univocity or singularity of thought and expression.]


-And what is the "Absolute Ideal" or the "Perpetual Synthesis" of the individual?

Perhaps it is a transcendence from our human qualities: man's propensity for subjugation, coercion and the exertion of will. Only through love and aesthetic truth will the beautiful and virtuous gain ascendancy over the asymmetrical, arabesque and contorted and therefore render us truly autonomous. In such a state, we would no longer be shackled to our debased and vile selves; humanity would no longer be grim, contorted, acrimonious or base. Society, or the collective will, would no longer impinge upon the individual as a collective and leaden manifestation of human mediocrity and lethargy, or as a weight that would trample the human individual. Such could be envisioned as a mighty flow of horrific waves that would rise to massive torrents sweeping away the good and beautiful in a similar fashion as rapacious and insatiable creatures defile the putrid carcasses of their prey.

With love for aesthetic beauty and an eye for virtue, the indefinite darkness or the tenebrous composed of shadows and illusions would dissipate at the grace of aesthetic beauty. Finally, through the filthy mists an effulgent radiance would pierce through the woeful and ignominious realm of humanity. Perhaps individual life is a brief or an ephemeral flame that flickers due to the shifting tides of human existence as life is phantasmagorical and forever in tension with continual processes of fragmentation and disintegration. Perhaps the human individual is ravished, desecrated and denigrated merely by his/her existence. With a senseless fool as the basis of the individual, the defects, impurities and vulgarity of the human character is amalgamated with other individuals for a collective consciousness of the senseless, decrepit and malleable.

Without aesthetic beauty, the apolaustic [one devoted to joyful pursuits, the good and the sublime] becomes pusillanimous or irresolute, vacillating and cowardly. The burning flame of autonomous thought that feasted upon the perfect, pulchritudinous, symmetrical and heroic is extinguished as the individual is repressed, sullied, atrabilious [filled with despair and gloom] and eventually reduced to a timorous and pitiful creature. Is life without aesthetic beauty and the glorious a tenebrous void driven by basic and primordial urges in which humans in a collective society prove useless by their vain and ineffective pursuit of chimeras or specters of illusion?

Without love, aesthetic principles and symmetry humans become equivocative: torn asunder by equipollent forces or forces that are equal in their severity and that are antithetical to each other. A single viewpoint or value is repelled by a contrapuntal force that represents the inimical or opposing and hostile viewpoint or value. Such a dichotomy is driven by a dynamism founded on incessant processes of tension that results in the dissolution of individual autonomy. With such inimical forces forever locked in tension the individual would writhe in agony and would be disconcerted. With the inability to ameliorate such dynamic forces and drives of fragmentation, devolution and disunion, individual will in its conclusion would become inchoate and devoid of purpose. The worth of human existence would then be chimerical or fanciful and therefore illusory...

[woody513]

Love and desires for the sublime and beautiful through aesthetics allow the human individual to transcend from the vulgarity of human existence and the obsequious bondage that binds collective humanity to indefinite darkness. Love and aesthetic beauty in its sensual and "wild" form is to be caressed by sweet reason and ratiocination. Through the immersion in aesthetic principles and values, the human individual will incessantly seek for immortal and divine truth. Also, the similitudes, patterns, correlations, values, and structures of the creative will and of the universal laws of Nature would be subsumed into a universal classificatory scheme* or categorization.

*[An enveloping fold that embraces the totality of human existence with the virtuous and sublime interlocked with the dilapidated, false and painful; of hubris and irresolution mixed with the good. A universal or absolute system of aesthetic laws and principles would act in opposition to a univocity or singularity of thought and expression.]


-And what is the "Absolute Ideal" or the "Perpetual Synthesis" of the individual?

Perhaps it is a transcendence from our human qualities: man's propensity for subjugation, coercion and the exertion of will. Only through love and aesthetic truth will the beautiful and virtuous gain ascendancy over the asymmetrical, arabesque and contorted and therefore render us truly autonomous. In such a state, we would no longer be shackled to our debased and vile selves; humanity would no longer be grim, contorted, acrimonious or base. Society, or the collective will, would no longer impinge upon the individual as a collective and leaden manifestation of human mediocrity and lethargy, or as a weight that would trample the human individual. Such could be envisioned as a mighty flow of horrific waves that would rise to massive torrents sweeping away the good and beautiful in a similar fashion as rapacious and insatiable creatures defile the putrid carcasses of their prey.

With love for aesthetic beauty and an eye for virtue, the indefinite darkness or the tenebrous composed of shadows and illusions would dissipate at the grace of aesthetic beauty. Finally, through the filthy mists an effulgent radiance would pierce through the woeful and ignominious realm of humanity. Perhaps individual life is a brief or an ephemeral flame that flickers due to the shifting tides of human existence as life is phantasmagorical and forever in tension with continual processes of fragmentation and disintegration. Perhaps the human individual is ravished, desecrated and denigrated merely by his/her existence. With a senseless fool as the basis of the individual, the defects, impurities and vulgarity of the human character is amalgamated with other individuals for a collective consciousness of the senseless, decrepit and malleable.

Without aesthetic beauty, the apolaustic [one devoted to joyful pursuits, the good and the sublime] becomes pusillanimous or irresolute, vacillating and cowardly. The burning flame of autonomous thought that feasted upon the perfect, pulchritudinous, symmetrical and heroic is extinguished as the individual is repressed, sullied, atrabilious [filled with despair and gloom] and eventually reduced to a timorous and pitiful creature. Is life without aesthetic beauty and the glorious a tenebrous void driven by basic and primordial urges in which humans in a collective society prove useless by their vain and ineffective pursuit of chimeras or specters of illusion?

Without love, aesthetic principles and symmetry humans become equivocative: torn asunder by equipollent forces or forces that are equal in their severity and that are antithetical to each other. A single viewpoint or value is repelled by a contrapuntal force that represents the inimical or opposing and hostile viewpoint or value. Such a dichotomy is driven by a dynamism founded on incessant processes of tension that results in the dissolution of individual autonomy. With such inimical forces forever locked in tension the individual would writhe in agony and would be disconcerted. With the inability to ameliorate such dynamic forces and drives of fragmentation, devolution and disunion, individual will in its conclusion would become inchoate and devoid of purpose. The worth of human existence would then be chimerical or fanciful and therefore illusory...

You really teach me new things. Well done Conrad.

[Bro_Matt]

i agree with woody, but it gonna take me a good nights sleep to take all that in. Conrad never lets us down, never.

[Cosmic Fury]

Love and desires for the sublime and beautiful through aesthetics allow the human individual to transcend from the vulgarity of human existence and the obsequious bondage that binds collective humanity to indefinite darkness. Love and aesthetic beauty in its sensual and "wild" form is to be caressed by sweet reason and ratiocination. Through the immersion in aesthetic principles and values, the human individual will incessantly seek for immortal and divine truth. Also, the similitudes, patterns, correlations, values, and structures of the creative will and of the universal laws of Nature would be subsumed into a universal classificatory scheme* or categorization.

*[An enveloping fold that embraces the totality of human existence with the virtuous and sublime interlocked with the dilapidated, false and painful; of hubris and irresolution mixed with the good. A universal or absolute system of aesthetic laws and principles would act in opposition to a univocity or singularity of thought and expression.]


-And what is the "Absolute Ideal" or the "Perpetual Synthesis" of the individual?

Perhaps it is a transcendence from our human qualities: man's propensity for subjugation, coercion and the exertion of will. Only through love and aesthetic truth will the beautiful and virtuous gain ascendancy over the asymmetrical, arabesque and contorted and therefore render us truly autonomous. In such a state, we would no longer be shackled to our debased and vile selves; humanity would no longer be grim, contorted, acrimonious or base. Society, or the collective will, would no longer impinge upon the individual as a collective and leaden manifestation of human mediocrity and lethargy, or as a weight that would trample the human individual. Such could be envisioned as a mighty flow of horrific waves that would rise to massive torrents sweeping away the good and beautiful in a similar fashion as rapacious and insatiable creatures defile the putrid carcasses of their prey.

With love for aesthetic beauty and an eye for virtue, the indefinite darkness or the tenebrous composed of shadows and illusions would dissipate at the grace of aesthetic beauty. Finally, through the filthy mists an effulgent radiance would pierce through the woeful and ignominious realm of humanity. Perhaps individual life is a brief or an ephemeral flame that flickers due to the shifting tides of human existence as life is phantasmagorical and forever in tension with continual processes of fragmentation and disintegration. Perhaps the human individual is ravished, desecrated and denigrated merely by his/her existence. With a senseless fool as the basis of the individual, the defects, impurities and vulgarity of the human character is amalgamated with other individuals for a collective consciousness of the senseless, decrepit and malleable.

Without aesthetic beauty, the apolaustic [one devoted to joyful pursuits, the good and the sublime] becomes pusillanimous or irresolute, vacillating and cowardly. The burning flame of autonomous thought that feasted upon the perfect, pulchritudinous, symmetrical and heroic is extinguished as the individual is repressed, sullied, atrabilious [filled with despair and gloom] and eventually reduced to a timorous and pitiful creature. Is life without aesthetic beauty and the glorious a tenebrous void driven by basic and primordial urges in which humans in a collective society prove useless by their vain and ineffective pursuit of chimeras or specters of illusion?

Without love, aesthetic principles and symmetry humans become equivocative: torn asunder by equipollent forces or forces that are equal in their severity and that are antithetical to each other. A single viewpoint or value is repelled by a contrapuntal force that represents the inimical or opposing and hostile viewpoint or value. Such a dichotomy is driven by a dynamism founded on incessant processes of tension that results in the dissolution of individual autonomy. With such inimical forces forever locked in tension the individual would writhe in agony and would be disconcerted. With the inability to ameliorate such dynamic forces and drives of fragmentation, devolution and disunion, individual will in its conclusion would become inchoate and devoid of purpose. The worth of human existence would then be chimerical or fanciful and therefore illusory...

This is an excellent argument in favor of the power of love, and you deserve rep for that.

However, the subject on hand is "What is sacrifice?"

If you could post to enrich this conversation further with your thoughts, it will be appreciated...

[imnothere]

Conrad answered both my questions perfectly. and expressed better then i ever could have exactly the drive behind the questions.
sacrifice is not sacrifice where love bends and expands the abilities of the individual. what would be a sacrifice for a friend or acquaintance is not a sacrifice for love.
taking it a step further, if one learns to love openly and freely to all life becomes more worth living, love better served, and joy common place. but that is an idealists view of the world. something to be strived for with out the hope of achievement.