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Thread: The case for 5s

  1. #1

    Default The case for 5s

    There's some debate as we're moving into new superservers that we should only build level 10s, that level 5 NPCs are for sissys.

    I farm both, and find that lvl 5s are too important to avoid.

    Farming 5s is free and easy.
    (1) I lose nothing. It's free food, free xp for low (or high) heroes.
    (2) A ballista team is dirt-cheap to make and maintain, marching costs are negligible.
    (3) If I get attacked while my ballista teams are out, my defense is not impacted.

    Farming 10s only is not sustainable.
    S'pose you lose 7.5k worth of archers per hit on a lvl10. Actual costs may be higher or lower depending on your hero, what types of fodder you send, etc., but I think this is close, and the conclusion doesn't change if you have more or less.
    7.5k of archers takes ~5-6 hours to make (again depends on your hero, # of barracks, etc.)
    7.5k of archers takes 2.25M food, 2.25M iron, and 2.625M lumber. You get 19M food, 0.6M lumber/iron/stone, and 1.5M gold.
    It costs approx 600k food to march, depending on the distance.
    So the net from a lvl 10 hit:
    + approx 16M food, 0.6M rock, 1.5M gold
    - 1.65M iron, -2M lumber

    Also, while my troops are out, my defense IS affected, depending how many teams I send from each town, I WILL have losses I need to be online to heal, and depending on my archer-barracks production, I may not be able to make as many troops as I lose if I'm planning to farm multiple 10s twice per day.

    Would I trade 3.5M of lumber/iron for 16M food? yes of course
    Do I enjoy leveling up high attack heroes? yes of course

    But I'm not going to forego the bread-n-butter of level 5s.

    I only (only?) play Evony a couple of hours, a couple of times per day. With a good field of lvl5s, I can launch my attacks and come back hours later to find millions of resources gathered with no cost, no troops to heal, no vulnerability to my defenses while I was afk.

  2. #2

    Default

    What works for you may not work for others. Granted the 5's are less costly in troops but more time consuming. I was sending 40+ teams out 4-5 times a day and couldn't keep up with the curve. Only by farming 10's can I increase my food supply AND keep my troop queues full. I hit one 10 and lose between 5-7k archers and 3k scouts BUT gain 19 mil food and a lot more other resources.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Killraven666 View Post
    What works for you may not work for others. Granted the 5's are less costly in troops but more time consuming. I was sending 40+ teams out 4-5 times a day and couldn't keep up with the curve. Only by farming 10's can I increase my food supply AND keep my troop queues full. I hit one 10 and lose between 5-7k archers and 3k scouts BUT gain 19 mil food and a lot more other resources.
    Taking your claimed numbers here, with ave 6k archers:

    You lose:
    2.1 million lumber
    1.65 million iron

    You gain:
    16.something food (dependin on travel cost)
    (some gold and stone, too)

    So you're not gaining "a lot more other resources," but in fact are losing quite a lot. Dunno how long it takes your barracks to put out 9k troops.

    I'm not saying we shouldn't farm 10s. I've been harvesting them for quite some time and plan to continue as long as I'm on evony. But we will bankrupt ourselves if that's all we do.

  4. #4
    Join Date
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    Default

    mulch why do you even care about loosing a few archers? like loosing lets say 60k archers (so 10hits....) would mean anything... yes maybe in begin of a server, but as those superservers are all further ingame that shouldnt be a problem... getting a little bit lower food consumption and also getting 19mil food, win-win in my eyes = )
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  5. #5

    Default

    In my experience it's almost impossible to survive solely on lvl 10s, because of the cost to lumber and iron. At one point I was hitting over 200 lvl 10s a day and selling 1B food in order to buy resources to replenish my losses, and then had to qeue 3-4 times at a total of 9-12 hours just to get back what I had killed off, it ended with me being in a situation where I was gradually killing off my army, just in an attemp to feed it.
    It is my recommendation that the best way is to have 1 or 2 cities surrounded by lvl 10s and the rest of the cities surrounded by 5s. At least this is what has worked for me.

  6. #6

    Default

    You guys keep farming those lv5, leave the 10's to the "suckers"

    Regards,
    Aetius
    WMDElite Host
    WN1 server - active for 3 years, now retired
    144 server - retired
    server 1 - retired

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Aetius View Post
    You guys keep farming those lv5, leave the 10's to the "suckers"

    Regards,
    Aetius
    Totally agree

  8. #8

    Default

    Id love server 6 to merge aswell, so I could get more 10s around me. I buildt 5s all around me when I thought I wasnt big enough to hunt 10s, and would never be (silly me.. )...
    Though Id never go all out 10s either. I would go for a nice mix. having many 10s close, and a lot of 5s outside the 10s. (that way I avoid enemies to port right on my doorstep aswell....

  9. #9

    Default

    I tend to farm 5's moreso than 10's, but do 10's mainly to bump my heros.

    Iron and Lumber on my server tend to run 2.5x and 3.5x the price of food, respectively.

    Thus, to recoup the resources I need, I have to sell 11.25 million food in order to buy lumber and iron:

    (2.25M iron - .6M from NPC = 1.65M addl iron needed @ 2.5 food/iron = 4.125M food)
    (2.625 lumber - .6M from NPC = 2.025 addl lumber @ 3.5 food/lumber = 7.09M food)

    Thus, effective yield out of a 10 = 19M - (4.125 [for iron] + 7.09 [for lumber] + 2.25M [for food]) = 19 - 13.715 = 5.285M net

    The 1.5M gold is almost worthless, as it will buy little more than a few tens of thousands of lumber in most cases.


    The lowest archer loss I was able to get was ~5k w/ a lvl 300+ hero... but then I also had some warriors and other layers in the mix, which would also have to be factored in.



    I've yet to see how farming 10's exclusively is sustainable in the long term. However, with a good field of lvl 5's I can sustain an army with a burn rate of -5mil/hr with little trouble.


    I see people who claim to farm 10's exclusively... Personally, I think they're full of it.... I don't think it is economically feasible, and if someone claims otherwise, please present some concrete evidence to show otherwise.
    Last edited by TentPig; 03-12-2010 at 04:13 PM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default

    I just farm them for no losses but i still farm lvl 10's

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