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Thread: The system mail we got back on 5/15/09

  1. #1

    Default The system mail we got back on 5/15/09

    I was bored the other day, waiting for 117hrs for archery to upgrade, and I was re-reading mail. And while re-reading the system message from 5/15/09.

    From the message:

    "We were basically left with two options: scale up our infrastructure to meet demand, or forgo the Free Forever theme and convert to a subscription system, which would reduce the number of users.
    We decided that because Free Forever is what inspired players to come to Evony in the first place, we would stick with it and do our best to support all our paid and unpaid players, rather than changing the business model to subscription-based."

    It concerns me that you considered changing to a subscription model. Does the term "free forever" mean something different in Korea (it is S Korea, yes?)?

    Evony, and it's original incarnation Civony, have both been EXTENSIVELY advertised as being "free forever". The title bar of the window the browser loads in when you play the game, says "free forever".

    The "free to play, pay for bonuses" gaming model is one that is beginning to catch on. It's possibly the future of online gaming. There has also been a LOT of discussion of the new legal minefield associated with the model. In a traditional pay to play model, it's very easy to have a EULA that dictates that the user is simply paying for a monthly (or other time frame) license to USE the software, and no ownership interest in any game items or progression exists. However, that's not so easy to claim in the "free to play" model. Users are actually paying directly for specific in-game items, or other potentially tangible in-game improvements. It's not so easy to dismiss the implied ownership in this model. Users who suddenly find that their purchased items have vanished due to a bug, or suddenly find they now have to pay extra to access these things they've already paid for, could very well have VERY credible legal claim.

    So my question to the powers that be... what is your intention? Do you actually understand the commitment you've made? Do you consult with lawyers from time to time? Yes I know, no one's going to likely prevail in even a class action suit against a company in Asia. But it certainly does give me (and I assume anyone else who can read) reason to be hesitant about giving you folks money for game enhancements, when you apparently have little recognition of what your own words & advertising commit you to. You're certianly free to make other games under whatever model you choose, but you've started down a road with this one.

    Now before the inevitable dingbats come out of the woodwork... please don't put words in my mouth. I have not, nor do I intend to, threaten suing anyone about anything. I'm simply observing that we have been communicated two VERY different messages from the people who operate this game. I'm simply looking for clarification. I'm hoping to be convinced that they understand the meaning of their words.

  2. #2

    Default

    I'm not sure I understand the reason for your post. It clearly states they will remain Free Forever with the additional caveat that it will be more difficult to administer due to the large numbers of players. Note the customer to worker ratio at Wal-Mart as opposed to Bloomingdales.

    As a side note (and I am not a lawyer) I would not see a legal minefield in "free to play, pay for upgrades" model as there is no software installed on the computer. It is Flash based: I have yet to see anyone complain that their Adobe Flash is lagging.

  3. #3

    Default

    They don't give two halves of a ****. Good luck trying to sue a chinese based company with no US HQ or affiliation.

  4. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by robertstewart55 View Post
    I'm not sure I understand the reason for your post. It clearly states they will remain Free Forever with the additional caveat that it will be more difficult to administer due to the large numbers of players. Note the customer to worker ratio at Wal-Mart as opposed to Bloomingdales.

    As a side note (and I am not a lawyer) I would not see a legal minefield in "free to play, pay for upgrades" model as there is no software installed on the computer. It is Flash based: I have yet to see anyone complain that their Adobe Flash is lagging.
    You obviously didn't read his post.

  5. #5
    Join Date
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    South Carolina
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    Okay, I think we all need to stand back and recognize something. No one forced this company to create a free online video game -- they chose to do so. As such, we should be pleased that they were willing to give us something to do.

    In the end, it is their game, and not ours. How dare we assume they live to service us? If I owned this game, just BECAUSE of that comment I would make the game subscription based for a few months, just to clear out those who feel entitled to play this game, from those who actually enjoy it and recognize it as a gift, and not a right.

  6. #6

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    As I said, not trying to sue anyone. Clearly it would be fruitless.

    And yes, it is their game. I'm not forced to play it. It's ok... fairly entertaining... tho as far as MMO-type games go, it's pretty obvious that, at least in it's current incarnation, it has no legs. In other words, not much longevity. A nice short term distraction.

    And Amfoster... if you did own the game and did make it subscription, you'd basically be commiting fraud. This game is NOT a gift. It is a for-profit business venture... period. If you can't even recognize that simple fact, then you clearly don't belong in an intelligent conversation on the matter. As to what I dare to assume... I dare to assume that they live up to their advertising. They advertise this game in a lot of places, and that advertising says "free forever". Yet, according to THEIR post (ie: not assumption on my part) the minute they run into a little unexpected hassle, they're prepared to at least consider abandoning their word. All I'm asking is that they officially reinforce their position to those amoung us who might actually be considering giving them some money.

    Clearing the air about this can only solidify their game. Like I said in the original post, this model is very possibly the next generation of gaming. I guarantee that every major game studio, including SOE & Blizzard, either already have plans for games under a free to play model (tho likely not browser based), or have at least given it serious consideration. Hopefully we can avoid the dweeb hoards turning a simple discussion into a flame fest.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    A little ways north of Montreal, Quebec.
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    And as an addendum,if I may:Yes,we know the game is FREE!!!The way it's working,it BETTER be!!!

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheBigZ View Post
    I was bored the other day, waiting for 117hrs for archery to upgrade, and I was re-reading mail. And while re-reading the system message from 5/15/09.

    From the message:

    "We were basically left with two options: scale up our infrastructure to meet demand, or forgo the Free Forever theme and convert to a subscription system, which would reduce the number of users.
    We decided that because Free Forever is what inspired players to come to Evony in the first place, we would stick with it and do our best to support all our paid and unpaid players, rather than changing the business model to subscription-based."

    It concerns me that you considered changing to a subscription model. Does the term "free forever" mean something different in Korea (it is S Korea, yes?)?

    Evony, and it's original incarnation Civony, have both been EXTENSIVELY advertised as being "free forever". The title bar of the window the browser loads in when you play the game, says "free forever".

    The "free to play, pay for bonuses" gaming model is one that is beginning to catch on. It's possibly the future of online gaming. There has also been a LOT of discussion of the new legal minefield associated with the model. In a traditional pay to play model, it's very easy to have a EULA that dictates that the user is simply paying for a monthly (or other time frame) license to USE the software, and no ownership interest in any game items or progression exists. However, that's not so easy to claim in the "free to play" model. Users are actually paying directly for specific in-game items, or other potentially tangible in-game improvements. It's not so easy to dismiss the implied ownership in this model. Users who suddenly find that their purchased items have vanished due to a bug, or suddenly find they now have to pay extra to access these things they've already paid for, could very well have VERY credible legal claim.

    So my question to the powers that be... what is your intention? Do you actually understand the commitment you've made? Do you consult with lawyers from time to time? Yes I know, no one's going to likely prevail in even a class action suit against a company in Asia. But it certainly does give me (and I assume anyone else who can read) reason to be hesitant about giving you folks money for game enhancements, when you apparently have little recognition of what your own words & advertising commit you to. You're certianly free to make other games under whatever model you choose, but you've started down a road with this one.

    Now before the inevitable dingbats come out of the woodwork... please don't put words in my mouth. I have not, nor do I intend to, threaten suing anyone about anything. I'm simply observing that we have been communicated two VERY different messages from the people who operate this game. I'm simply looking for clarification. I'm hoping to be convinced that they understand the meaning of their words.

    So, to summarize the half dozen paragraph post of yours: It's still free.

    Did I miss anything?

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DngrMse View Post
    So, to summarize the half dozen paragraph post of yours: It's still free.

    Did I miss anything?
    You obviously didn't read it aswell.

    Can you people please think before you post?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    South Australia
    Posts
    92

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    the message came in on the 15th of may and you're only just now, 10 days later, deciding to take umbrage at the idea that they CONSIDERED changing to subscription based

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