Vito, if you don't see what is wrong with this thread, then I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.
Vito, if you don't see what is wrong with this thread, then I'm not going to be able to explain it to you.
Foxy, your initial response to this thread made me snicker a bit but it also showed me that you don't seem to understand his point. He is absolutely right when he states that this design does not promote teamwork.
I understand that you have this set in place because you do not want smaller players helping out larger players. That idea alone goes against team work which is what the alliances are set up for right? If I recall from past discussions on this topic, your reasoning for this is to stop multi accounting. I am telling you that your design does not accomplish that.
Here is the way around it. The smaller player sends all their resources to one city and one of the two players is kicked from the alliance. The larger player attacks the smaller player and takes all the resources. Resources transferred and the multi account user still continues to play with no penalty. See how easy that was?
Now look at it from the perspective of a smaller alliance trying to work together to defend themselves against a larger alliance. The smaller non multi account player is trying to be part of a team and help his alliance mates out. Let's just say that he has 200k archers. The best player in his alliance has a wide gap in prestige between himself and the smaller player. The larger player has been doing all the fighting for the smaller alliance and has been keeping the smaller alliance players safe because he is the one attacking, defending and reinforcing. The problem the larger player has is that the people he is fighting against, are stronger than him. Now he has run into a problem because he no longer has enough troops to either defend himself or keep reinforcing his smaller team mates. He now has a decision to make. Either ask to be reinforced himself or stop reinforcing the smaller players. Let's say that he decides to ask for help instead of abandoning the smaller player. His team mates see this and now they try and support him. The smaller player who has 200k archers decides to send his larger team mate 100k. Along the way, the smaller player is plundered and loses 50% of his troops. Now, the larger player, who was expecting 100k archer only get 50k and eventually he succumbs to the larger alliance player beating him. The smaller alliance player, who is now out his 100k troops, can not reheal any of the lost troops and can not rebuild fast enough to recuperate what he just lost. Eventually he succumbs because he is just not strong enough to defend himself. Over time the smaller alliance loses the war because they could not work as a team and defend against the larger stronger alliance.
This topic alone is a microcosm of the larger issue you have with the game as a whole. When you guys are implementing designs changes like this you need to ask yourself some questions. Is it good for the health of the game? Does it seem fair? Does it increase/decrease the fun factor? Will the design change actually work? Are there ways around it?
If you ask yourself these questions you will see that this is not a good design or way of handling the problem. No where else does a player lose troops and not have the opportunity to reheal. Why is this? The most sever punishment you have in the game is because one team mate helps out another. Does that seem fair? Is that good for the health of the game?
Have you noticed an increase in the amount of people trying to drop prestige? It is because they are trying to stay at a level equal to their other team mates so that this does not occur. If you want to implement prestige restrictions, then make it so that only a certain percentage of troops and resources can be sent to a larger player. Do not simply nuke the smaller players troops. You are hurting the smaller player more than the larger player. That makes the game seem unfair and more importantly less fun. When the game isn't fun anymore, people will leave. Please remember that last statement. It is the single most important thing to consider when you implement design changes.
Huge text wall but very correctly spoken. Furthermore the reinforcement issue should consider more the prestige of the enemy attacking instead of only the friend you are reinforcing!
If the enemy attacker has a prestige of 5 gazzillion and your biggest ally mate has a prestige double triple or 10 times yours...but still a tiny fraction of the enemy...why wouldn't you be able to team together EVERYONE large and small to try and beat him? Bad rule with good intentions. Needs modified or removed.
Last edited by reddbaron; 06-01-2010 at 01:26 PM.
I'm going to put my response above yours so it doesn't get lost beneath your wall of text.
If Rambo exists in the game, then they would know when to reinforce, when to not reinforce, what to reinforce with, where to attack, when to attack and when not to attack, and they wouldn't need players with half or less of their prestige to reinforce their cities or send them resources.
If Rambo is in an alliance where they have to do everything, they will lose. I use the name Rambo because the scenario you put out there isn't one of teamwork, but one of the one man army who doesn't need any help.
Depending on a single player to win a war is not teamwork, and if the player doing everything needs help they can dump prestige so they can get it. If prestige means so much they refuse, then they can be a paper tiger and lose. If they insist on getting reinforced by players who will get plundered doing so, then the problem is that player, not the game mechanic.
By the way, if a multi decides to kick their resource gathering alt so they can farm it, then they are exposing themselves to get banned under the "no military contact" clause.
As for claiming/inferring this is a design change, it isn't.
Last edited by Ashanta; 06-01-2010 at 02:32 PM.
But....the eternal ray of sunshine REALLY wanted to see you, so I helped brighten your day by removing the city from around you! ^.^
What? Are you kidding? Did you get confused by the text wall?
Teamwork is teamwork. (big, small or medium) There should not be a restriction on a high level player recruiting low level players into his alliance and defending them as they grow. Certainly, if a guy did that, there definately shouldn't be a restriction on those smaller but growing players helping out when an even bigger player attacks their mentor!
The plunder of reinforcement troops most certainly is a game mechanic.
That dumping prestige ploy is really stupid. You can get around a bad mechanic by dumping prestige? Now if that isn't abusing the system I don't know what else is! Why have the bad mechanic? If you get stubborn and absolutely insist on having the bad mechanic, then why allow such a loophole around it?
If Evony gets to the point where to suceed you simply need to know the most loopholes and illogical tricks to get around poorly thought out game mechanics, then the days of Evony will sure be shortened drastically. Count on it.
Last edited by reddbaron; 06-01-2010 at 03:03 PM.
correct me if i'm wrong, but are you saying that if the player isn't Rambo, and doesn't really understand the battle mechanics, wich is typical in a new player, then he should die for his ignorance?
If this is the case, i disagree with you.
i don't see why this ignorance should interfere with the intentions or ability to reinforce someone, doesn't matter if his pres is higher or lower than the player trying to help his team mate. And you should already know that NO ONE is invincible, no matter how many troops or knowledge you hold.
Reinforcing is a VERY IMPORTANT part of the game. I, and i'm pretty sure you have too, have seen the biggest players of the servers fall to a smaller player or a smaller alliance, so pres shouldn't really matter, but what really matters is how your team works as a whole, after all, this is a war game, and as such, strategie should be the most important factor instead of troop numbers or troop counts....
i just think the smaller/new player has lost the importance in this game, leaving them out...
Just Remember the MOST IMPORTANT formula in ANY game:
No Fun=No players
__________________________________________________ _
Good job not understanding plain English!
The scenario given was that of an alliance depending on a Rambo-esque player to do everything from attacking the other alliance to reinforcing other players and defending their own cities. I said that type of player would know battle mechanics, and at no point in time did I say anything about what any other players would know or not know. The scenario given was one in which teamwork was definitely not being used. If teamwork was being used, the plunder mechanism would never trigger because high prestige players would dump prestige so the alliance could work as a team. I even stated that a player who needs help would dump prestige to get it as getting help would be more important than maintaining high prestige while being a paper tiger.
In even more basic English.
If your alliance works as a team, the plunder mechanism will never be an issue.
But....the eternal ray of sunshine REALLY wanted to see you, so I helped brighten your day by removing the city from around you! ^.^
To anyone thinking about posting, even though you think that the comments from the Evony staff or other players are out of line, please refrain from commenting on them. Please stay on topic and express your feelings with regards to what the OP is stating. There is no need to have a good discussion closed because people want to flame each other.
I am sorry for the wall of text but there is no way that I can correctly phrase this in a short manner. So here comes another wall. LOL!
Ashanta, you are taking what I said out of context. While my scenario does only involve one large and one small player, it was done to simplify things. If you want I can create another text wall to show you how this is a problem amongst a group of people.
Bottom line is that if this restriction is designed to stop people from multi accounting then it is not working. A different design needs to be implemented.
If you are suggesting that people should dump their prestige so that the plunder mech does not kick in, then I am telling you that highlights this design flaw. Remember, some people like to have a lot of prestige. It is a sign of their work. If they have to dump their prestige to be able to work together as a team emphasizes that the initial design is flawed.
There seems to be a disagreement about what prestige is. To me prestige is nothing more than a sign of how long someone has played the game. If you really want to talk about strength, than you should be looking at players heroes.
We are talking about working together as a team regardless of what your prestige is. All alliances are filled with both high and low prestige players. If they are all team mates then there should be no reason why they can not work together. Restricting them working together just devalues the importance of an alliance.
One last thing to remember, for every big player out there, there is an even bigger player. Even the biggest players need help from time to time.
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