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Thread: The Broken Honor System

  1. #1

    Default The Broken Honor System

    As is generally accepted as knowledge, "Honor" is obtained through causing damage to an opponent, specifically it is procured from costing your enemy more than yourself during a battle.
    Now, I have seen several comments about the Honor system, most of which mention in varying detail how it is an intentionally created system of penalty whereas Honor equates to a lower percentage of wounded in battle for he who has it, but I must note something I find strange:

    The Stratagem, Wage War Without Declaration is "self-described" in Evony Age II as follows (and I quote): "Fight with the players without war declaration. It deducts offender's honor by 10%. It's effective for 2 hours and cannot be applied twice with 6 hours."
    Despite the usual realization that whomever typed that bit of literature doesn't practice English as a first language, the question arises, if Honor is a penalty by design, why does a Stratagem offer the loss of honor as a penalty/balance mechanism?

    Obviously I agree with many that the Honor system needs adjustments. I like the concept as a modifier, but due to the fact that it is so easy to reduce one's Honor by simply sacrificing cheap units, Honor should be altered in some way. I have a few ideas of my own, but I am curious to hear from other, perhaps more experienced players, what they would do to the Honor system if they could change it to their liking.
    And of course the inquiry remains: Why does a Stratagem mention the loss of Honor as though it were a penalty, when it is supposed to be a penalty to gain Honor?
    Last edited by Sol Aureus; 06-16-2010 at 04:33 PM.
    Vis consili expers mole ruit sua.

  2. #2

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    Honor is a failed attempt at balancing the game for new up and coming players to have a chance. There are many threads discussing ways to fix it and accomplish the desired effect, however there is no word on anything from the developers if they are even considering any of the suggestions.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Aureus View Post
    As is generally accepted as knowledge, "Honor" is obtained through causing damage to an opponent, specifically it is procured from costing your enemy more than yourself during a battle.
    Now, I have seen several comments about the Honor system, most of which mention in varying detail how it is an intentionally created system of penalty whereas Honor equates to a lower percentage of wounded in battle for he who has it, but I must note something I find strange:

    The Stratagem, Wage War Without Declaration is "self-described" in Evony Age II as follows (and I quote): "Fight with the players without war declaration. It deducts offender's honor by 10%. It's effective for 2 hours and cannot be applied twice with 6 hours."
    Despite the usual realization that whomever typed that bit of literature doesn't practice English as a first language, the question arises, if Honor is a penalty by design, why does a Stratagem offer the loss of honor as a penalty/balance mechanism?

    Obviously I agree with many that the Honor system needs adjustments. I like the concept as a modifier, but due to the fact that it is so easy to reduce one's Honor by simply sacrificing cheap units, Honor should be altered in some way. I have a few ideas of my own, but I am curious to hear from other, perhaps more experienced players, what they would do to the Honor system if they could change it to their liking.
    And of course the inquiry remains: Why does a Stratagem mention the loss of Honor as though it were a penalty, when it is supposed to be a penalty to gain Honor?
    The last sentence caught my eye, honor is an opinion. I like honor to show off, but hate it when I lose troops. This is in the wrong section.

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  4. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skillerspure View Post
    The last sentence caught my eye, honor is an opinion. I like honor to show off, but hate it when I lose troops. This is in the wrong section.
    Maybe it's an opinion whether or not a user likes it, but it is a fact it is a detrimental effect. Wrong section? Well, maybe a Moderator will move it to the proper area. If so, my mistake, and apologies.
    Vis consili expers mole ruit sua.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by skillerspure View Post
    The last sentence caught my eye, honor is an opinion. I like honor to show off, but hate it when I lose troops. This is in the wrong section.
    This is in the right section. The OP is not making a suggestion, the OP wishes to discuss why, instead of penalizing a player, the strategem "Wage war withoutdeclaration" is actually benefiting them.

    Honor in this game is not an opinion, it's a combat game mechanic that does something that affects combat, and it affects combat in a way that can be messed with such that you can suicide you worst troops with bad heal rates so that you can send your best troops later and kill their best troops such that you get the best heal rate and they get nothing, basically.

    Combat heal rates should take more into account than just a players honor, maybe their honor, prestige, rank and title.

    Why honor? Because it's something that goes up and down.

    Why prestige? Because it's a stat that generally goes up, and does not go down during combat, but can be artificially manipulated.

    Why Rank? Because you cannot artificially modify it at all.

    Why Title? Because you cannot artificially manipulate your title.

    In order to keep prestige from being artificially manipulated too much, there would need to be a limit to how many times one can join an alliance a day.
    Last edited by Ashanta; 06-16-2010 at 07:01 PM.
    But....the eternal ray of sunshine REALLY wanted to see you, so I helped brighten your day by removing the city from around you! ^.^

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ashanta View Post
    This is in the right section. The OP is not making a suggestion, the OP wishes to discuss why, instead of penalizing a player, the strategem "Wage war withoutdeclaration" is actually benefiting them.

    Honor in this game is not an opinion, it's a combat game mechanic that does something that affects combat, and it affects combat in a way that can be messed with such that you can suicide you worst troops with bad heal rates so that you can send your best troops later and kill their best troops such that you get the best heal rate and they get nothing, basically.

    Combat heal rates should take more into account than just a players honor, maybe their honor, prestige, rank and title.

    Why honor? Because it's something that goes up and down.

    Why prestige? Because it's a stat that generally goes up, and does not go down during combat, but can be artificially manipulated.

    Why Rank? Because you cannot artificially modify it at all.

    Why Title? Because you cannot artificially manipulate your title.

    In order to keep prestige from being artificially manipulated too much, there would need to be a limit to how many times one can join an alliance a day.
    Naturally, I agree.

    That is the question. There is evidence suggesting that Evony once intended Honor to be a positive thing in effect, but instead, we have Honor as a negative.
    Vis consili expers mole ruit sua.

  7. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sol Aureus View Post
    Naturally, I agree.

    That is the question. There is evidence suggesting that Evony once intended Honor to be a positive thing in effect, but instead, we have Honor as a negative.
    The real question should be..Does the honor system currently as is accomplish the desired effect (balance the new player somewhat with the experienced)

    The answer is NO. Actually has the opposite effect of making the experienced powerful player with an even greater advantage.

  8. #8

    Default

    I agree that honor is broken.

    I would just like to point out one positive i see in it.

    In the later stages of the game i think we can all agree it most often takes multiple waves to take out a solid enemy city.

    I think we can also agree that defenders have a huge advantage.

    The way honor is set up now. It punishes those who sit behind the walls and defend the whole server, while rewarding those attack waves which are doomed to fail but nessacary to take a well defended city.

    This is just one positive i have seen, but i agree a revamp (something along the lines of Ashanta's post) is in order.

  9. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by webby189 View Post
    I agree that honor is broken.

    I would just like to point out one positive i see in it.

    In the later stages of the game i think we can all agree it most often takes multiple waves to take out a solid enemy city.

    I think we can also agree that defenders have a huge advantage.

    The way honor is set up now. It punishes those who sit behind the walls and defend the whole server, while rewarding those attack waves which are doomed to fail but nessacary to take a well defended city.

    This is just one positive i have seen, but i agree a revamp (something along the lines of Ashanta's post) is in order.
    Well if all your doing is sitting in your city farming you deserve the honor. The problem I have is instead of queuing archers,cavs, or phracts I have to que scouts once a day just to drop honor.

  10. #10

    Default

    I am not sure who to complain to about this, but it also lets the "attacker" wage war on people under beginers protection. What a piece of...... not fair at all. I didnt bother with troops right away becuase I was under the impression "Beginers Protection" meant something.

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