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Thread: Cap lvl10 NPC: Epic Fail

  1. #1
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    Default Cap lvl10 NPC: Epic Fail [Game Mechanics Questions]

    ok, have some serious questions on lvl10 regen rates and inconsistencies.

    Having capped 5s, 6s & 7s with no problems in the past launching from multiple cities using two Arc farming waves followed by 40-50 cav hits (yes its overkill) I set off to cap a 10, realizing I needed a 10 Workshop to finish Medal Casting 10 for catapults having stupidly NPC'd a captured city with it in it earlier in the day.

    I also knew I would lose a good amount of cav, but was sitting on 200k.

    Following same logic as 5,6,7 capping... sent 2 Arc farming waves to clear troops & walls, and the 40k warriors that regen by second wave.... 1st two waves 15 second apart. At 16s & 17s two 70k cav/30k scouts to clear most of Abatis..... then the 40 waves of 1500 cav within next 20 seconds or so.

    1st Arc wave clears as it should

    2nd Arc wave at 15s, no warriors in city, wall D amounts = casualties

    1st Cav/Scout wave at 16s, 40k warriors appear from no where --> Cav/Scouts Slaughtered Wall D appears again, but 60% casualties

    2nd Cav/Scout wave at 18s, more Slaughter but successful after 6 rounds.

    3rd - 25th 1500 cav waves, Slaughter continues, however on all of them.... amount equals casualties on wall defense, and that number decreases each wave.

    ~26th cav wave and beyond.... successful hits....

    End result as soon as I could get a scout there, loyalty to 54, RL at 864, DTs at 104 and Abatis at 3

    13mins later, (faulty scout b/c of camp time from sending earlier waves) Wall D regen as one would expect, but there are now 80k warriors!!!!!

    Lesson learned, no Cav to take a 10, but wtf am I missing? Warriors just regen whenever they feel like it, Wall D regens every hit minus 5-10%?
    Last edited by Che G; 07-15-2010 at 06:30 PM. Reason: clarity

  2. #2
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    The warriors re-spawn 40k every 6 mins. A far easier way and much less costly than using cavs, and can be done in 30-32 waves total using 15k archers and 1k scouts as your spam waves. It would serve you well to check your servers tick timer, done by scouting any npc u have hit to see what minute the resources increase. Troops will re-spawn at that time as well.

    Last bit of advice, shorten the time between each wave, i.e. spearhead @ xx:xx:00, AT clear @ xx:xx:01, spam @xx:xx:02 and after.
    Last edited by Alteris; 07-15-2010 at 04:24 AM.
    Retired, Reset, and Relaxed

  3. #3
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    Ok understood.... but is the regeneration not ruled by the coded logic? Why are there not 40k warriors at 15 seconds, then they appear magically at 16 seconds and how the heck are there 80k warriors at 13 minutes?

    {Edit]

    so after further discussion this is a possibility.... troop Regen time is based on 6 min interval, just like pop regen and gold from taxes.... the 6 mins for the warriors to regen have nothing to do with when the first hit lands, but rather what the 6 min server time "tic" is on. if this is the case... then I just failed hugely with my first hit landing 15.5 seconds before "tic" and magically there are the 40k warriors to greet my cav wave at 16 seconds but miss my arc wave 0.5 seconds before. Yeah, gotta love that!!!

    still doesn't explain 80k warriors 13 minutes later
    Last edited by Che G; 07-15-2010 at 05:01 AM. Reason: a possibility....

  4. #4
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    Good advice by Alteris. Here is how there are 80k warriors 13 minutes after your first hit, for example:

    00:00:00 your attack
    00:00:16 server tick: +40k warriors
    your wave(s) kill warriors
    00:06:16 server tick: +40k warriors
    no hits by you in this 6-minute period while waves are returning to city and then back to NPC
    00:012:16 server tick: +40k warriors (total 40+40 = 80k warriors)
    00:013:00 Your attack. Ouchie 80k warriors

    That's the only explanation I can imagine. I recall seeing a guy on youtube take a city with ponies and not only did he do it excellently, his video/audio skills were very impressive. I think he was part of BlackSun on server 7. It would've been back in about June, 2009. Worth a look. Props to him. I've never attempted to use ponies... I like my clippety-clops too much.


  5. #5
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    Default Clarification

    Thanks DCJ for putting it in a time format... I've corrected how you interpreted my narrative into as happened in the same form, to show how messed up it is. I believe had I hit initially 1-2 minutes before server tic, then it would have gone off as you mention in the UTube video... but the luck of the draw screwed me.

    -00:05:44 server tic

    00:00:00 your attack arc rainbow #1

    00:00:15 your attack arc rainbow #2

    00:00:15.5 server tick: +40k warriors

    00:00:16 70k Cav/ 30k Scout wave #1 Cavs/Scouts Slaughtered by tic increase of wall's D (60% Killed) and 40k warriors (100% Killed)


    00:00:17 70k Cav/ 30k Scout wave #2 Cavs/Scouts win in 6 rounds

    00:00:18 thru 00:00:48 40+ waves of 1500 cav coming from 5 cities hit with Cavs loyalty drops by 4 per hit, usually more than enough to cap city

    00:06:16 server tick: +40k warriors
    no hits by you in this 6-minute period while waves are returning to city and then back to NPC <--- not correct, all hits finished

    00:012:16 server tick: +40k warriors (total 40+40 = 80k warriors) <--- not correct, scout any NPC, never are there 80k warriors in it

    00:013:00 Your attack. Ouchie 80k warriors <--- no hit, scout at this time shows 80k warriors

    not debating, just trying to understand game mechanics, as there is more than one way to skin a cat.... just like killing a defending city a) scout bombing arcs out of existence, or b) scout/cav spamming wall layers, etc... cav smack archers
    Last edited by Che G; 07-15-2010 at 06:11 AM.

  6. #6
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    a better technique
    1st wave-norm farming wave
    2nd wave-50k arch 10k warriors 1k scouts
    every wave after- 20karch 20k warriors 1k scouts launch from 5 cities with first wave from lvl 10 rally, the other 4 cities can have a lvl 9 rally if you dont have all lvl 10s, have the first 1 hit 5 secs apart, and 39 more waves hittng 10 secs after your first 2 but within 6 mins of them, you only need 40 waves to cap a npc but since there is a chance the server will tick while your attacking it you should send 14 waves.................should only take you about 30 secs to cap it with well camped troops
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  7. #7

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    Humm, I guess I'm not normal, because I almost always use cavs to take npc 10s. If the first two waves are archer waves and all the rest are cav waves, I'm looking at somewhere around 15k cav losses total. If I can send the first 10 waves as archer waves, then the cav losses are reduced to maybe around 5k.

    I find the benefits of using cavs far outweigh the losses, especially taking into consideration the larger size of the new servers. Here's a short list of the reasons for using cavs:

    1. Cavs are faster than archers, so taking an npc 70 miles away is not nearly the inconvenience with cavs that it would be with archers. Think about all that extra time you lose farming while your archers are walking to and from said capped npc.

    2. Cavs have a significantly higher load capacity, therefore you can take an npc much further away without having to include workers/wagons. In a way, I guess this could be included with my first point, as it's a matter of speed/convenience.

    3. Cavs drop loyalty more than an equitable number of archers, therefore you need fewer waves. I only need to use all the rally spots of three cities to take the npc, rather than the 4 cities I would need to use if I were sending archer waves. This is especially useful if timing is an issue and you need to have troops in your forward city A.S.A.P., as you can start reinforcing the capped 10 immediately from your other cities, rather than waiting for your troops to come back.

    Just as an FYI, I always use equitable numbers of scouts and cavs, as the scouts absorb more of the traps and cut down quite a bit on cav losses.

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  8. #8
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    Default Game Mechanics Question

    Thanks MiraL, I knew I was not smoking crack in thinking taking a 10 with Cav was a no brainer and once again the Evony Gods' eff me.

    7.5-15k cav losses would have been acceptable, but not the 70-90k I lost due to randomness in the system. You obviously have never ran into the 40k warrior re-spawn then?

    From here on out, I'll have to watch for the Tic and plan my first arc waves accordingly, leaving sufficient time for the Cav to do their work.

    Lest we get off topic, (as I am not asking for a guide on how to take a 10, but rather the mechanics of how the NPC logically re-spawns) there is still the question of how did my scout report at +13 minutes show 80k warriors (of course I deleted it prior to taking a screen shot) and the re-spawn process (mechanics) of the 10. Again was this a fluke, or does the 10 in its mechanics put in an additional 40k warriors, then remove them after other troops are re-spawned?

    Also as to wall defense re-spawn.... On the line items for city defense of WR for the walls.... each hit showed the following as an example using DTs

    Cav #1 Amount = 100 Casualties = 100

    Cav #2 Amount = 90 Casualties = 90

    Cav #3 Amount = 81 Casualties = 81

    Cav #4 Amount = 73 Casualties = 73

    Cav #5 Amount = 66 Casualties = 68

    etc... each successive hit kills all, but the walls re-spawn ~90% of the item.

    Is this normal, or similar to other small inaccuracies from the game designers' native language not being English,

    does Amount not equal Troops in city at start of hit

    and Casualties not equal Actual troops killed by attack and equal Actual troops remaining after attack ?

    Thanks for the input on the mechanics!

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Che G View Post
    You obviously have never ran into the 40k warrior re-spawn then?
    Oh, I've definitely run into the re-spawn upon occasion. And boy does it hurt.

    It happens when I random tele into another state without alliance mates (to find new targets). If the player I want to hit happens to be 6 miles away and the closest npc10 is 5 miles away, and I only have one city from which to send the attacks, well....you can see how re-spawn would be an issue, lol. However, it's not like I really have a choice at that point. I mean, I'm gonna hafta feed my troops somehow, right? For me, teles are precious, as I only farm them from other players or win them off the wheel. They cannot be rebuilt like 50k cav can.

    As to the rest of your post, I'm afraid I don't really follow what you're asking. I don't bother to read most of my reports from npc hits, as I do them too often to waste time on, but I'm pretty sure npc 10s have lvl 10 techs, which would mean engineering 10, which would mean even though you might have killed a certain number of wall def in one hit, the next hit might have more than what you would have been expecting thanks to the repairable rate. Not sure if this is what you were asking about, but hey, I'm tryin' here

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  10. #10
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    yes, it is exactly what I'm getting at! and thanks for pointing out the techs issue.... will do more research on that, as that is probably the key to what I am seeing each round of hits with the wall d automatically healing minus 10%.

    yeah, i no longer read the WR either, minus except when there's an epic fail.

    but, i think under the conditions u noted and what I think we understand about tics and re-spawn timing.... with just watching for the tick you could avoid those heaving cav losses grabbing a 10 near an enemy target as such....

    00:00:00 server tick

    00:06:01 or 00:12:01 or 00:18:01 First two arc waves land on an interval of 6mins greater than travel time to NPC plus 1 second

    00:06:02 thru 00:11:59 Cav/Scout waves hit

    00:12:01 Warriors Re-Spawn, 3rd Warrior clearing Arc wave

    00:12:02 thru 00:17:59 Cav/Scout waves hit

    00:18:01 Warriors Re-Spawn, 4rd Warrior clearing Arc wave

    00:18:02 thru 00:23:59 Cav/Scout waves hit

    NPC might be conquered at this point (4 x 2 or 3) plus (6 x 4 x 3), or very close

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