Legal to have firearms in your house

[Japengo]

I can agree with that, in some circumstances.

I'll also agree that its more dangerous to drive rather than walk.

It's more dangerous to fly in an aircraft rather than take a train.

It's more dangerous to own a dog, than to be petless.

It's more dangerous to interact with people, than to become a loner.

All of those are subject to specific circumstances, as is firearms in the house. If you live in a particularly dangrous part of a city, and people know that you have a gun, they are more likely to assault a house that they know doesnt have one rather than yours.

[Rodri]

[Alusair]

The basis of my argument, which I have repeatedly stated cannot be won against the American psyche, is that having a gun in your home is more dangerous than not having a gun in your home. That is all.

The reason you can't win is because you're trying to tell people with the experience of having guns in the household, that having guns in the household is dangerous, without the experience of having guns in the household.

I could probably go tell a pilot that flying is dangerous, too. Would it be a surprise if no number of flying deaths or flying tragedies had the slightest effect on his pilot psyche? Would it really be that unusual if he trusted his personal experience over the word of someone who's never flown in her life?

If you live in a particularly dangrous part of a city, and people know that you have a gun, they are more likely to assault a house that they know doesnt have one rather than yours.

Around where I live, public places with the "NO GUNS ALLOWED INSIDE" sign on their doors tend to be the ones robbed with guns most often. Purely coincidental though, I'm sure.

[abracax]

* In or about 2006, there were about 60 million (actually closer to 58M, but we'll use the rounded-up number to be kind to hopolophobes) people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland.

* In England and Wales alone, discounting Scotland, there were over 163 thousand knife crimes.

* By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole.

* In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400 thousand gun crimes.

* In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down).

* In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people ? less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually).

* That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US.


This next set of statistics is from 2001

* The percentage of the population that suffered "contact crime" in England and Wales was 3.6 percent, compared with 1.9 percent in the United States and 0.4 percent in Japan.

* Burglary rates in England and Wales were also among the highest recorded. Australia (3.9 percent) and Denmark (3.1 per cent) had higher rates of burglary with entry thanEngland and Wales (2.8 percent). In the U.S., the rate was 2.6 percent, according to 1995 figures;

* "After Australia and England and Wales, the highest prevalence of crime was in Holland (25 percent), Sweden (25 percent) and Canada (24 percent). The United States, despite its high murder rate, was among the middle ranking countries with a 21 percent victimization rate," the London Telegraph said.

* England and Wales also led in automobile thefts. More than 2.5 percent of the population had been victimized by car theft, followed by 2.1 percent in Australia and 1.9 percent in France. Again, the U.S. was not listed among the "top 10" nations.

* The study found that Australia led in burglary rates, with nearly 4 percent of the population having been victimized by a burglary. Denmark was second with 3.1 percent; the U.S. was listed eighth at about 1.8 percent.


Those are all countries with bans on guns and a lower population than the U.S.. It can easily be argued that the statistics are lower in the U.S. because we allow gun ownership.

And Rodri, if you have nothing to say then don't say anything and stop trolling with pics.

[Rodri]

[FoxyBunny]

No worries FB.



(I wish I could get away with posting some of the gruesome images I have found but that would offend too many people.)

The basis of my argument, which I have repeatedly stated cannot be won against the American psyche, is that having a gun in your home is more dangerous than not having a gun in your home. That is all.

Rodri, your responses are pathetic and border on spam. If you cannot win an argument via logic or reason, you shouldn't just resort to pulling up whatever crap you can find on the internet.

Your first image came from here:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/art...un_control_ad/

It was a FAKE billboard created by an activist who thinks guns are evil, just as you apparently do. He also felt it was reasonable to post false images in an attempt to make a point.

The second quote I posted here proves to me that you either didn't bother to read the statistics I posted which are incontrovertible evidence that those who defend themselves from violent crime by use of a firearm are LESS likely to suffer serious injury or death, or else you simply ignored them.

The last one is an example of the images you posted which amount to nothing more than trolling/spam. I can find fail pictures too, but they don't prove a thing. I am certain I can find a picture of a rabbit who leaps into the air and rips the throat out of grown men. Doesn't make it real or representative of any truth.

Many of us have offered up rational arguments, reliable statistics, and politely stated opinions in favor of guns. Many of us have also offered up the same in opposition to guns. You, though, have devolved into a stream of stupid pictures that prove nothing except that you have failed and lost this debate.

[abracax]

# Many foreign countries have less restrictive firearms laws, and lower crime rates, than parts of the U.S. that have more restrictions. And many have low crime rates, despite having very different firearms laws. Switzerland and Japan "stand out as intriguing models. . . . (T)hey have crime rates that are among the lowest in the industrialized world, and yet they have diametrically opposite gun policies." (Nicholas D. Kristof, "One Nation Bars, The Other Requires," New York Times, 3/10/96.) Swiss citizens are issued fully-automatic rifles to keep at home for national defense purposes, yet "abuse of military weapons is rare." The Swiss own two million firearms, including handguns and semi-automatic rifles, they shoot about 60 million rounds of ammunition per year, and "the rate of violent gun abuse is low." (Stephen P. Halbrook, Target Switzerland; Library of Congress, pp. 183-184.) In Japan, rifles and handguns are prohibited; shotguns are very strictly regulated. Japan`s Olympic shooters have had to practice out of the country because of their country`s gun laws. Yet, crime has been rising for about the last 15 years and the number of shooting crimes more than doubled between 1997-1998. Organized crime is on the rise and 12 people were killed and 5,500 injured in a nerve gas attack in a Japanese subway system in 1995. (Kristof, "Family and Peer Pressure Help Keep Crime Levels down in Japan," New York Times, 5/14/95.) Mostly without firearms, Japan`s suicide rate is at a record high, about 90 per day. (Stephanie Strom, "In Japan, Mired in Recession, Suicides Soar," New York Times, p. 1, 7/15/99.)
# U.S. crime trends have been better than those in countries with restrictive firearms laws. Since 1991, with what HCI calls "weak gun laws" (Sarah Brady, "Our Country`s Claim to Shame," 5/5/97), the number of privately owned firearms has risen by perhaps 50 million. Americans bought 37 million new firearms in the 1993-1999 time frame alone. (BATF, Crime Gun Trace Reports, 1999, National Report, 11/00.) Meanwhile, America`s violent crime rate has decreased every year and is now at a 23- year low (FBI).

Here you go Rodri, two sides of the coin for guns.

40% of U.S. citizens own guns. 35% of Swiss citizens own guns, the difference is that Switzerland issues most of those guns to it's populace.

Posted: April 19, 2007
1:52 pm Eastern

? 2010 WorldNetDaily.com

Kennesaw, Ga., City Hall

As the nation debates whether more guns or fewer can prevent tragedies like the Virginia Tech Massacre, a notable anniversary passed last month in a Georgia town that witnessed a dramatic plunge in crime and violence after mandating residents to own firearms.

In March 1982, 25 years ago, the small town of Kennesaw – responding to a handgun ban in Morton Grove, Ill. – unanimously passed an ordinance requiring each head of household to own and maintain a gun. Since then, despite dire predictions of "Wild West" showdowns and increased violence and accidents, not a single resident has been involved in a fatal shooting – as a victim, attacker or defender.

The crime rate initially plummeted for several years after the passage of the ordinance, with the 2005 per capita crime rate actually significantly lower than it was in 1981, the year before passage of the law.

Prior to enactment of the law, Kennesaw had a population of just 5,242 but a crime rate significantly higher (4,332 per 100,000) than the national average (3,899 per 100,000). The latest statistics available – for the year 2005 – show the rate at 2,027 per 100,000. Meanwhile, the population has skyrocketed to 28,189.

[Rodri]

The funny part is, the statistics might be right and there are more break-ins and car theft in Australia than any other country but in general, we don't feel particularly at risk in our homes and have never had a culture of gun ownership for home protection.

I know Americans love their guns and will not be swayed to give them up. I admit that most of the images I posted were just for lols. Like I said, real images of gunshot wounds would offend too many people to be posted on these boards. They are gruesome. Enjoy your guns, turn them into toys or household appliances, or even fashion accessories if you like. I don't care, it's no skin off my nose. I don't have to live in America so it matters not to me.

[abracax]

The funny part is, the statistics might be right and there are more break-ins and car theft in Australia than any other country but in general, we don't feel particularly at risk in our homes and have never had a culture of gun ownership for home protection.

I know Americans love their guns and will not be swayed to give them up. I admit that most of the images I posted were just for lols. Like I said, real images of gunshot wounds would offend too many people to be posted on these boards. They are gruesome. Enjoy your guns, turn them into toys or household appliances, or even fashion accessories if you like. I don't care, it's no skin off my nose. I don't have to live in America so it matters not to me.

Australia had a massive gun ban/buyback in 96, the statistics for crime showed a huge increase until 2001. Burglaries alone went up by 45% within 12 months of the ban/buyback. I think that statistic speaks for itself, and 5 yrs of increased crime because of the ban/buyback also speaks for itself. In 2001 crime rates started dropping in general around the globe in industrialized nations, so you can't even say that Australia got control of the issue.

Murders committed with firearms by % population in 2009
Australia .0000027
United States .0000305

Not that huge of a difference considering the population of Australia is only 21,431,800 and the U.S. is 307,006,550

[Rodri]

I spam silly pictures, you spam unrelated statistics.
The thing you need to ask is the number of gun related deaths and injuries per capita.

The rest of it is irrelevant to this debate.