The Butterfly Effect

[Rodri]

Please explain.

Please dont.

Cause and effect. Chaos theory is just a way of explaining cause and effect. Taking out Rasputin might seem like a major factor that would have major repercussions. But it might only create a power vacuum that would be filled by another personality of similar or worse disposition, depending upon prevailing circumstances at the time. Social attitudes, the attitudes within the royal court and the political intrigues of the time would all have been contributing factors to any outcomes. In chaos theory, broader trends can be seen to emerge when equations are run with certain factors being variable within the equations. This can be used for everything from predicting traffic flow trends to running a washing machine at maximum efficiency.

[Ikeni]

My grandfather worked at Ravensbr?ck. After the war, he worked in a Funeral Bureau. And now, he is a conspirator theorist. I am now critique to all info I get served at school.

I don't really understand how your grandfather being a conspiracy theorist makes you yourself a holocaust denier.

Please dont.

Cause and effect. Chaos theory is just a way of explaining cause and effect. Taking out Rasputin might seem like a major factor that would have major repercussions. But it might only create a power vacuum that would be filled by another personality of similar or worse disposition, depending upon prevailing circumstances at the time. Social attitudes, the attitudes within the royal court and the political intrigues of the time would all have been contributing factors to any outcomes. In chaos theory, broader trends can be seen to emerge when equations are run with certain factors being variable within the equations. This can be used for everything from predicting traffic flow trends to running a washing machine at maximum efficiency.

My post was directed at LaoOmologo.

[Balaam]

...trends to running a washing machine at maximum efficiency.

the first time i saw fuzzy logic on a washing machine i thought it had some special way of measuring the number of woollens i had in the load

[LaoOmologo]

I don't really understand how your grandfather being a conspiracy theorist makes you yourself a holocaust denier.

It might seem a bit absurd, yes, but the facts he's told me can't be wrong. Just can't be. If I were to tell you everything, it would need somewhere around 6 posts to tell everything. I'll just take one example:

A Human body needs a heat somewhere around 2400 Celsius, and 19 hours to turn to dust. With 'documented' facts, there were about 12 ovens in all the 'extermination' camps. That is 12 bodies a day. 12 bodies times 365 times 3 equals about 13000 bodies through the war. The rest of the bodies is said to be burned in huge pits, but, through the Funeral Bureau, I learned that the fires can't reach higher than 1500 Celsius degrees. Besides, the mass effect would kill the fire long before it burned all the bodies away.

I've checked this on the Internet, and the fact is that it's "true".

[Balaam]

ima gonna choose to believe the guys with the tattooed numbers annnd say that 13000 turned to dust and the rest not completely disintegrated in mass burnings in pits...still equals a holocaust, all while simultaneously respecting your grandfather's right to suspect some conspiracy

[Ikeni]

With 'documented' facts, there were about 12 ovens in all the 'extermination' camps. That is 12 bodies a day. 12 bodies times 365 times 3 equals about 13000 bodies through the war.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...st/cclist.html

15,000 concentration camps were used by the Germans. Taking the figure of 13,000 which you've provided and multiplying that by 15,000 you get 197,100,000. This is without ignoring the fact that a single body wouldn't have been burned in a day. Seeing as this is a massively inflated figure, there must be something wrong with your calculations.

The rest of the bodies is said to be burned in huge pits, but, through the Funeral Bureau, I learned that the fires can't reach higher than 1500 Celsius degrees. Besides, the mass effect would kill the fire long before it burned all the bodies away

And yet it didn't. It's a google search away, all you have to do is google the Holocaust and you'll realise something as massive as it was couldn't have been made up. Besides, German personal testimony can be biased or incorrect at times because of the ideological conditioning of the Nazis; german soldiers post-war may omit certain details which they refuse to accept and can not comprehend, though inability to comprehend something as we know doesn't therefore mean something isn't true.

Suffice to say, for you to take the opinion of your grandfather over the vast amount of work and images published in regards to the Holocaust supporting it is a shame because you're deluding yourself.

[Rota]

[Gnerphk]

...

OK; thanks for that bit of wisdom, Rota.

The Holocaust should have its own thread; I'm pretty sure we could get some good mileage out of the debate. Granted, there's both politics and religion involved (tangentially); nevertheless...

I'd like to debate the "kill Hitler" proposal. Presuming the Holocaust happened -- and an awful lot of people really did disappear -- there's a reason that it did. There's a massive weight of history behind the phenomenon, and there's massive cultural inertia that would need to be diverted in order to keep that particular sociopolitical diversion (blame the Jews and practice Eugenics) from being the secondary focus of the German nationalist resurgence. German nationalism was a factor due to the terms of the Treaty of Versailles; WWII was inevitable from that point.

Minor events can change the future. History has such power and force that even major events are unlikely to divert it from its path. There is a difference.

The butterfly cannot create a phenomenon. It can merely release stored potential and affect the timing and direction of the outcome. In such a limited role, anyone can accept it.

Of course, if every butterfly in the world flapped its wings simultaneously in the appropriate direction, an oscillation pattern could be set up to create a major event. But that ain't gonna happen.

[gottibabe1]

So.. your essentially saying... a butterfly in brazil flaps its wings...

and then what? that must be some MASSIVE wind being blown form those tiny little wings...
and making it all the way to texas...

It's things like these that just make me question the human race's sanity

This is like that octopus that predicts fifa haha

Sorry, I'm a realist I have a hard time believing in imaginary things, I call it coincidence.

[Rodri]

Think of the atmosphere as liquid. If you start from a point of absolute stillness, then even the smallest motion within the liquid will have a ripple affect. If you keep adding many variable influences, some more powerful than others, then it is the cumulative effect that is the eventual outcome that is the storm's path. But if you alter some of those variables, even as small as the flap of a butterfly wing, then the eventual outcome may be altered marginally or drastically, depending upon the cumulative effects of the changing variables.

It's quite logical really.