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Thread: Ethics & incongruent social mores

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  1. #1
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    Default Ethics & incongruent social mores

    I note an interesting even intriguing dichotomy in player ethics.

    Capturing a city is good and plundering resources is good.
    But stealing a valley is bad. Having an unconquerable city with warehouses is the work of the

    Boasting about a plunder or capture is good. Organising others to help strip a city is good.
    Telling anyone in World Chat the location of the attackers is bad.

    Having a monster army and harvesting everyone in range is good.
    Giving up after being hit for the dozenth time and leaving an inactive is bad.

    There seems to be a grab bag of bits and pieces of what is fair and what is unfair. They appear to be at odds with each other.

    Best wishes to those who were in ICECOLD, MERC, HONOR on 131, SOLACE on 144, thePack2 on 158

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackay131 View Post
    I note an interesting even intriguing dichotomy in player ethics.

    Capturing a city is good and plundering resources is good.
    But stealing a valley is bad.
    A city is defended, valleys are not. Hitting a valley as part of an assault is fine. Sniping a valley, but not hitting the city is a petty attack from a coward.

    Having an unconquerable city with warehouses is the work of the
    Boasting about a plunder or capture is good.
    Warehouses don't make a city unconquerable, account sharing and botting does. They hold so few resources that it is not "bad" to have them... it's "noob"ish to have more than one.

    Organising others to help strip a city is good.
    Telling anyone in World Chat the location of the attackers is bad.
    It's okay to share coords in WC. But, it's foolish to share your own coords in WC.

    Having a monster army and harvesting everyone in range is good.
    Giving up after being hit for the dozenth time and leaving an inactive is bad.
    Quitting and going inactive is fine after you get bored or frustrated. People lament that Evony does not clear the inactives. They don't hate the players for leaving.

    There seems to be a grab bag of bits and pieces of what is fair and what is unfair. They appear to be at odds with each other.
    Can you think of any contradictions that are mutually exclusive?
    That would be a real contradiction.

    But, this is a clever idea for a thread. I look forward to examples other people will be adding
    Last edited by Rota; 12-18-2010 at 01:25 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzzzzzzzalicious! View Post
    i started to read this and agree with everything rota says. if people just listened to him the forums would be a better place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Rota is correct.

    I don't even understand the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post


    Sniping a valley, but not hitting the city is a petty attack from a coward. Valleys are not defended.
    Does an assault from a player who has overwhelming force on a player who has little and is trying to grow constitute bravery ?

    Valleys are part of resource gathering albeit in a more passive mode but does constant harvesting of a weaker player leaving nothing constitute justice

    Reducing the ability of another to strike by sniping a valley then abandoning just before the reboot when a head on attack will crash into casualties is war but is there any fair war ?

    Valleys can be defended by stationing troops and a hero, most players chose not to.
    Last edited by Mackay131; 12-18-2010 at 01:45 AM. Reason: add to post

    Best wishes to those who were in ICECOLD, MERC, HONOR on 131, SOLACE on 144, thePack2 on 158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackay131 View Post
    Does an assault from a player who has overwhelming force on a player who has little and is trying to grow constitute bravery ?

    Valleys are part of resource gathering albeit in a more passive mode but does constant harvesting of a weaker player leaving nothing constitute justice

    Reducing the ability of another to strike by sniping a valley then abandoning just before the reboot when a head on attack will crash into casualties is war but is there any fair war ?
    No, that is not brave. I did not defend that kind of bully action.

    I said "as part of an assault" is fine. But there are small players (usually an alt) that never attack a player, but just snipe valleys. When there is no intent to challenge the player on the field of battle, then valley sniping is petty and cowardly.


    You seem to have a particular dislike of bullying behavior, and your not going to get an argument from me. Transports and reinforcements are plundered when sent to a player that is much higher than you. Maybe they can create some hinderance to attacking those much weaker than you. Honor heal rates were supposed to be the penalty for attacking weaker players. But honor shedding and honor dumping have reversed that penalty, the bullies get the benefit. Maybe Evony will fix honor or get a new idea that might actually dissuade bullying.
    Last edited by Rota; 12-18-2010 at 01:52 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzzzzzzzalicious! View Post
    i started to read this and agree with everything rota says. if people just listened to him the forums would be a better place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Rota is correct.

    I don't even understand the question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
    No, that is not brave. I did not defend that kind of bully action.

    I said "as part of an assault" is fine. But there are small players (usually an alt) that never attack a player, but just snipe valleys. When there is no intent to challenge the player on the field of battle, then valley sniping is petty and cowardly.


    You seem to have a particular dislike of bullying behavior, and your not going to get an argument from me. Transports and reinforcements are plundered when sent to a player that is much higher than you. Maybe they can create some hinderance to attacking those much weaker than you. Honor heal rates were supposed to be the penalty for attacking weaker players. But honor shedding and honor dumping have reversed that penalty, the bullies get the benefit. Maybe Evony will fix honor or get a new idea that might actually dissuade bullying.
    As part of a defence but not an assault not fair is a more.
    Does a player doing whatever it takes to survive and sometimes bleeding resources is all they can do, at least have a right to defend against a threat albeit indirectly

    Particular dislike of bullying behavior That is part of the dichotomy of honor in battle that I see there. A bantamweight being clobbered by heavy, is that honorable, is it something that appears consistant with the code or mores of the game

    Best wishes to those who were in ICECOLD, MERC, HONOR on 131, SOLACE on 144, thePack2 on 158

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mackay131 View Post
    Does an assault from a player who has overwhelming force on a player who has little and is trying to grow constitute bravery ?
    I think it constitute safety, in time the smaller player will grow up to be a threat, so why not stop them when you they weak? Everything is fair in war.

    I guess suspending me for a day changed me...NOT

    Ardee, you will be missed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by King Shii View Post
    Everything is fair in war.
    https://bbs.evony.com/showthread.php?t=161859 So this guy is a pest. Having fun as well. Catch me if you can and when they do, port.

    And the player who harvested a few good players into quitting is hero ?

    At least the pest is having some sad enjoyment, while the player being harvested, every time they log in, wait for the misery to arrive.

    Best wishes to those who were in ICECOLD, MERC, HONOR on 131, SOLACE on 144, thePack2 on 158

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    Well valley sniping a someone that is assaulting your lord is fine, too. Valley sniping a player that has not attacked your lord is the act of a pest.

    Don't snipe a player that may be attacking a larger friend or alliance mate of yours. Don't snipe another player that has not attacked, just because they are in an alliance you don't like. Don't snipe the valleys of a large player because they are in the top rankings, just to be a pest to a top player. Only defensively snipe as a direct defense on a player that has assaulted you.



    edit: I should not have had to make this post.
    You're arguing semantics. You know the difference between taking a valley as part of legit battle, and taking a valley to be a pest. That's the sniping I was referring to, and you know what I meant. You know when someone is sniping to be a pest, and when they are sniping as part of a battle.
    Last edited by Rota; 12-18-2010 at 02:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Lazzzzzzzzalicious! View Post
    i started to read this and agree with everything rota says. if people just listened to him the forums would be a better place.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Rota is correct.

    I don't even understand the question.

  9. Default

    0_o maybe I can figure out what is being said here and participate.

    EDIT: Ah I get it....Um yes, don't attack valleys of a lord that has not attacked you.
    Supporting Evidence: I scout bombed someone to lose honor and lower upkeep a lil bit... I ended up with a SB, then spams, then phracts, then cavs, then archers, aand losing my attack hero.
    Last edited by LordMac123; 12-18-2010 at 02:39 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rota View Post
    I'm not sure if there was a counterpoint in there. But, if it will make you happy, then I yield the dispute to put an end to this tangent. You win.
    I won!
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  10. #10
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    Rota anything the game mechanics allows is fair. Perhaps not wise for an individual player, but fair. Else the Evony designers would have patched it out by now. Anything else put on top is a local social agreement that is enforced by the local social peer group. Which is fine, since the game allows players and alliances to do just that.

    The only good example I can think of is prestige farming, or good prestige verses bad prestige, or doing it right verses wrong. Anyone that understands the prestige calculation can optimize prestige generation, at a cost, but people don't like that. However the game mechanics allow it in both Age1 and Age 2. So which is correct? Both methods.

    So basically the line is what the game allows. Simple. and if it were that unfair, players would vote with their feet. And yet a hard core of them are still buying Evony happiness chests daily.

    Capella

    PS However anyone that snipes my valleys will find out about local social agreements fast

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