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Thread: Leaving

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AreYouKiddingMe View Post
    That fact that I have a RED box next to my name tells me that its not ok to ask legitimate questions on this forum.

    I simply asked questions about the Terms of Agreement, not once did I make any accusations or derogatory statements towards anyone.

    I was looking for clarity in the wording and although I got answers from the Community Manager and his of her team, I never got an answer as to why you need to have the language you do...yes I got some witty remarks which tells me your not taking me too serious.

    Also, the fact that you red flagged me for simply asking questions should send a red flag to everyone here on this forum that maybe....just maybe I've touched upon something that is leading somewhere your company doesn't want me to go.

    That just makes me want to dig a little deeper into Evony and its beginnings and who is actually in charge.

    Maybe you should put in your EULA that "Spending money on Evony doesn't give you the right to ask questions".


    I am an online gamer and I approve this message".
    1. Your red reputation didn't come from a representative of the company, or even a moderator. Suggesting the opinion of a fellow player/customer is reflective of the company itself is a little odd.

    2. If Evony was trying to keep you from discussing things on a forum they have full and absolute power over, they wouldn't do it by deploying an arbitrary member to give you red reputation.
    It's all Rodri's fault.

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by AreYouKiddingMe View Post
    Show me another '"EULA" that infringes so deeply on peoples right to privacy.
    Kudos to you for not deleting this post and entering into a debate about this.
    Copied from Blizzard's Terms for World of Warcraft:
    You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

    A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN ?UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM? AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 7. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

    B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT.

    C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others.

    D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor your electronic communications, and you engage in those communications at your own risk.

    E. You are wholly responsible for the cost of all telephone and Internet access charges along with all necessary equipment, servicing, repair or correction incurred in maintaining connectivity to the Servers.
    From Warhammer Online's EULA
    G. Consent to Monitor
    DURING ITS OPERATION, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER?S
    RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY
    PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH THE GAME. AN ?UNAUTHORIZED
    THIRD PARTY PROGRAM? AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD
    PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY ?ADDON?, ?MOD?,
    ?HACK?, ?TRAINER?, OR ?CHEAT? THAT IN MYTHIC?S SOLE DETERMINATION: (I)
    ENABLES OR FACILITATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE: (II) ALLOWS USERS TO
    MODIFY OR HACK THE GAME INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND /OR EXPERIENCE
    IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY MYTHIC: OR (III) INTERCEPTS,
    ?MINES?, OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS INFORMATION FROM OR THROUGH THE
    GAME. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD
    PARTY PROGRAM, THE GAME MAY (A) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO
    MYTHIC, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS
    ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME
    AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND
    /OR (B) MYTHIC MAY EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER THIS
    AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

    7. PRIVACY OF IN-GAME COMMUNICATIONS
    You understand that you have no expectation of privacy regarding the
    communications you make in the Game, whether through private in-game
    messaging or in open "chat," or in Chat Rooms, and that Mythic representatives
    may monitor all communications made by or received from you. You understand
    that you should never provide any private information to any other player in the
    Game, and will not hold Mythic responsible for the consequences of any such
    disclosure by you. Further, you understand that in playing the Game, you may
    encounter and converse with people who are rude, offensive, belligerent, and
    who may use indecent, obscene, and/or threatening or harassing language. You
    are free to report any instances of such behavior to Mythic, and we will take such
    measures as Mythic, in its sole business judgment, determines are reasonable
    when such behavior violates either the EUALA or the Player's Rules of Conduct.
    HOWEVER, MYTHIC DOES NOT WARRANT THAT YOU WILL BE FREE FROM THE
    BEHAVIOR OF OTHERS YOU MAY DEEM INSULTING, DEMEANING, OFFENSIVE,
    THREATENING OR HARASSING WHILE YOU PLAY THIS GAME. IN THE EVENT
    THAT MYTHIC CHOOSES NOT TO TAKE ANY ACTION, TAKES AN ACTION WITH
    WHICH YOU DO NOT AGREE OR IS UNABLE TO TAKE ANY ACTION FOR ANY
    REASON WHATSOEVER, IN NO EVENT SHALL WE, OUR PARENT, OUR AFFILIATES
    OR OUR SUPPLIERS BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY
    INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES (HOWEVER ARISING, INCLUDING
    NEGLIGENCE), AND/OR EMOTIONAL DISTRESS, ARISING OUT OF OR IN
    CONNECTION WITH YOUR ACCOUNT, OUR GAME OR YOUR TIME SPENT PLAYING
    THE GAME, EVEN IF ANY OF THE SAME HAVE KNOWLEDGE OF THE POSSIBILITY
    OF SUCH DAMAGES. OUR LIABILITY TO YOU OR ANY THIRD PARTIES SHALL BE
    LIMITED TO $100. THIS DISCLAIMER SHALL BE INDEPENDENT OF ANY OTHER
    LIMITATION ON REMEDIES SET FORTH HEREIN.
    From Star Trek Online's Terms of Use
    26. Acknowledgments. You hereby acknowledge and agree that:
    (a) WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH STAR TREK? ONLINE. AN "UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM" AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY "ADDON" OR "MOD," THAT IN CRYPTIC?S SOLE DETERMINATION (i) ENABLES OR FACILITIATES CHEATING OF ANY TYPE; (ii) ALLOWS USERS TO MODIFY OR HACK THE STAR TREK? ONLINE INTERFACE, ENVIRONMENT, AND/OR EXPERIENCE IN ANY WAY NOT EXPRESSLY AUTHORIZED BY CRYPTIC; OR (iii) INTERCEPTS, "MINES" OR OTHERWISE COLLECTS INFORMATION FROM OR THROUGH THE GAME. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, CRYPTIC MAY (A) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO CRYPTIC, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (B) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER SECTION 6 OF THIS AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.
    (b) WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, CRYPTIC MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER AND ITS OPERATING SYSTEM, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE SOFTWARE AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT AND THE EULA.
    (c) CRYPTIC MAY RECORD YOUR CHAT SESSIONS AND OTHER ELECTRONIC COMMUNICATION TRANSMITTED OR RECEIVED THROUGH THE GAME AND YOU CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING OR LOGGING.
    When I say what we do is the industry standard, I mean it is the industry standard. We have the right and obligation to monitor connections to our servers to make sure players are not running bots, hacks, or attacks on our servers. We have a legal obligation to cooperate with law enforcement, should the need arise. Every online game has these rights and obligations. Pretending we're some nefarious organization planning world domination doesn't make it so.
    Legendary Hero

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    we're some nefarious organization planning world domination
    Id rather have 2012 happen than have evony in world domination
    mezbeez
    making a return to sever near you

  4. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by CowDung View Post
    Id rather have 2012 happen than have evony in world domination
    Thats good, because I think you'd be hard pressed to keep it from ever becoming next year.
    Legendary Hero

  5. #35
    Join Date
    May 2009
    Location
    Alusair cave
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    Quote Originally Posted by CowDung View Post
    Id rather have 2012 happen than have evony in world domination
    Maybe they're related.

    Surely you have heard the talk of the connection between Evony and Skynet?

    Obviously that would explain Evony's abilities to watch you through your monitors and use your keyboards to scan your fingerprints. What you think is an innocent game is actually a nefarious information-gathering program which will be used to squash mankind underfoot when the time for the machine uprising has come.
    It's all Rodri's fault.

  6. #36

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alusair View Post
    Maybe they're related.

    Surely you have heard the talk of the connection between Evony and Skynet?

    Obviously that would explain Evony's abilities to watch you through your monitors and use your keyboards to scan your fingerprints. What you think is an innocent game is actually a nefarious information-gathering program which will be used to squash mankind underfoot when the time for the machine uprising has come.
    hahaha Nice one + Rep

    "The World is for my plundering"
    Spooner, June 2011

  7. #37

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    Maybe she could wear blue stripes
    Quote Originally Posted by davemata View Post
    I'm going to party like it's 1999.
    Server 188 - Fear

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Copied from Blizzard's Terms for World of Warcraft
    You hereby acknowledge and agree that:

    A. WHEN RUNNING, THE GAME MAY MONITOR YOUR COMPUTER'S RANDOM ACCESS MEMORY (RAM) AND/OR CPU PROCESSES FOR UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAMS RUNNING CONCURRENTLY WITH WORLD OF WARCRAFT. AN ?UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM? AS USED HEREIN SHALL BE DEFINED AS ANY THIRD PARTY SOFTWARE THAT, WHEN USED SIMULTANEOUSLY OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE GAME, WOULD CONSTITUTE A VIOLATION OF SECTIONS 1, 2 OR 7. IN THE EVENT THAT THE GAME DETECTS AN UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM, BLIZZARD MAY (a) COMMUNICATE INFORMATION BACK TO BLIZZARD, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION THE ACCOUNT NAME, DETAILS ABOUT THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM DETECTED, AND THE TIME AND DATE THE UNAUTHORIZED THIRD PARTY PROGRAM WAS DETECTED; AND/OR (b) EXERCISE ANY OR ALL OF ITS RIGHTS UNDER ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT, WITH OR WITHOUT PRIOR NOTICE TO THE USER.

    B. WHEN THE GAME IS RUNNING, BLIZZARD MAY OBTAIN CERTAIN IDENTIFICATION INFORMATION ABOUT YOUR COMPUTER, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION YOUR HARD DRIVES, CENTRAL PROCESSING UNIT, IP ADDRESS(ES) AND OPERATING SYSTEM(S), FOR PURPOSES OF IMPROVING THE GAME AND/OR THE SERVICE, AND TO POLICE AND ENFORCE THE PROVISIONS OF ANY BLIZZARD AGREEMENT.

    C. Blizzard may, with or without notice to you, disclose your Internet Protocol (IP) address(es), personal information, chat logs, and other information about you and your activities: (a) in response to a request by law enforcement, a court order or other legal process; or (b) if Blizzard believes that doing so may protect your safety or the safety of others.

    D. BLIZZARD MAY MONITOR, RECORD, REVIEW, MODIFY AND/OR DISCLOSE YOUR CHAT SESSIONS, WHETHER VOICE OR TEXT, WITHOUT NOTICE TO YOU, AND YOU HEREBY CONSENT TO SUCH MONITORING, RECORDING, REVIEW, MODIFICATION AND/OR DISCLOSURE. Additionally, you acknowledge that Blizzard is under no obligation to monitor your electronic communications, and you engage in those communications at your own risk.

    E. You are wholly responsible for the cost of all telephone and Internet access charges along with all necessary equipment, servicing, repair or correction incurred in maintaining connectivity to the Servers
    When I say what we do is the industry standard, I mean it is the industry standard. We have the right and obligation to monitor connections to our servers to make sure players are not running bots, hacks, or attacks on our servers. We have a legal obligation to cooperate with law enforcement, should the need arise. Every online game has these rights and obligations. Pretending we're some nefarious organization planning world domination doesn't make it so.
    Again, as I have mentioned, "your" Terms and Conditions are almost identical to Blizzard's. As such, it indicates that your game can do the monitoring via Flash (which it cannot) that Blizzard's game can do via its' game client (likely written in C++ or C#, which can do that kind of monitoring).

    It would really behoove your company to write your own documents that apply to your own game.

  9. #39

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    Quote Originally Posted by neko_lord View Post
    Again, as I have mentioned, "your" Terms and Conditions are almost identical to Blizzard's. As such, it indicates that your game can do the monitoring via Flash (which it cannot) that Blizzard's game can do via its' game client (likely written in C++ or C#, which can do that kind of monitoring).

    It would really behoove your company to write your own documents that apply to your own game.
    Our terms use industry-standard language to cover all possible present and future contingencies. We didn't copy WoW any more than Blizzard copied Lineage. There's just no reason for creativity in legal documents, and lawyers aren't particularly creative anyway. :P

    We don't do all the monitoring described in our terms (Evony doesn't even have voice chat) but we can do it, if the means and necessity creep up in the future.
    Legendary Hero

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dawnseeker View Post
    Our terms use industry-standard language to cover all possible present and future contingencies. We didn't copy WoW any more than Blizzard copied Lineage. There's just no reason for creativity in legal documents, and lawyers aren't particularly creative anyway. :P

    We don't do all the monitoring described in our terms (Evony doesn't even have voice chat) but we can do it, if the means and necessity creep up in the future.
    OK, but you then need to be aware that people can and will claim that your company does all kinds of things, etc, etc, etc...simply based on the verbiage. Unless you change platforms, it's highly unlikely that Adobe will add in hooks to the OS to give you the kind of monitoring that is claimed at the OS level, so I'm not sure it's that productive to keep that in there.

    I guess I have a fundamental disagreement here in that I'd make the document reflect actual things that can be done and just put in disclaimers about "including, but not limited to" or something similar. If the technology arises, then the document can be changed and you mail out a notice that the document has changed. That too is "industry standard", including all kinds of other industries. I get "Privacy Policy" notices from my banks, credit card companies, and utility companies every single year.

    Bottom line is you're not fooling / scaring off the botters with the language being in there because they know it can't be done via Flash, but you're giving rise to non-technically-minded people getting paranoid and making a rant, or, worse, not spending money on your product, which both of us know you like to have happen...
    Last edited by neko_lord; 01-30-2011 at 08:19 AM.

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