[RELEASE] Honor Dumping

[practicalfool]

this is actually neither a cheat, nor a hack. The resource numbers required to build either part of the two things required here have a big gap between them.

You can also stack a load of them on ur walls among other stuff against real pvp to avoid the spam honour loading noobs give try to give u. Think b4 u write off genuine game tactics as cheats.

[Junior DH]

Cheers K for the method

[Arcturuz]

You only need to send warriors - the other layers make no sense. They increase the expense of the tactic and decrease the honor drop.

You can typically send warriors equal to around 80-90% of the DTs on the walls. Attacks with 5k work but are going to take a lot longer simply because it takes more runs. But dont overdo warrior numbers, as it is a real problem to wipe the DTs from the walls if too many warriors are sent. There is a significant random variation regarding how many warriors trigger how many DTs, so dont play with the maximum number you can send. (Average is typically 3 warriors trigger 2 DTS, between 60-70%, but I have seen it as high as almost 1 to 1, and as low as 50%).

Make sure the defender's gates are closed - otherwise it reduces effectiveness since units other than DTs kill warriors.

You have to be careful about the existing honor levels of attacker and defender. The attacker needs honor less than 50% of defender, but attacker cannot have zero honor. In this optimum set up, each DT that fires drops 166 honor, while being offset by warriors killed (3.05 per warrior). You end up averaging slightly more than 160 per DT taken out. If you ignore the honor, you may only get 40 per DT (and a range of in between results depending on relative honor difference).

You basically lose on average 100 honor for each warrior sent when honor difference is optimum. The attacker incurs the cost of the warriors, which is fairly minor. The attacker has 40% or 50% heal. The attacker gains no honor since the attack wipes.

If you have maxed your wall techs, the DTs regenerate around 85% of the number that fire (cant remember exact number), which means that out of 11,000 DTs, you actually have around 70,000 shots (rough calculation - someone else do the math) and can lose up to 11 million honor with 11k DTs. Typically, you might knock off several million, and then rebuild the DTs rather than sending ever smaller warrior waves to engage 2000 DTs, then 1700 DTs, etc.

Consider having several DT cities, but avoid having them in contested zones. I love wiping someone's DTs. Yeah, they get an honor drop, but nothing like they could get, and must endure the wait to rebuild.

You can substitute scouts for warriors if no one is close enough to send slow warriors to your DT cities. It is more expensive (like 4x the resource cost for attacker), and you need more scouts per run (around 130% of number of DTs present, though have not tested this much). Reason is that DTs have an attack factor (900?, or is it 800 - compare to 600 for catapult), and warriors defense is 50 compared to 20 for scouts (before techs). So fewer DTs needed to kill same number of scouts.

Using DTs, you can manage your honor so that you are always very low when attacking, and can insure yourself the max heal rate. This is an essential tactic when attacking, which makes DT cities essential for any aggressive player.

[Fragsrus]

Thx for that update Arcturuz.. can any other experienced players confirm this? No offense to you Arcturuz, just always like to here confirmation on these things.

EDIT: On a side note, using 5k warrs with the 1 count layers I am only loosing 100k-170k honor.. no where near the 500-700k mentioned in the OP.

[practicalfool]

the 1 troop each is meant to just try and maximise round counts and get some extra DTs triggering.
I also suggest mining the inn for the highest intel hero you can get to hit with so each warrior counts for as much as they can.
Results are variable depending on hero used etc and obviously they trigger a random number of trebs.
I have noticed that evony has changed this mechanic a bit recently, that might or might not be true but I think it is and is what ur getting there Frag.. Damn the OP for putting this up as a 'guide' really... just changed a tactic that used to work well into just another not so sure one.

[Arcturuz]

Fragsrus - if you are getting crappy honor drops, it is almost certainly because the attacker's honor is more than 50% of defender's honor. The amount of honor taken varies in the same manner that the heal rate varies. You want the attacker to have less than 50% of your honor to get the max honor rate drop (cause attacker has high heal rate).

There are old forums that discuss the exact mechanics of how honor drop is calculated in general, and how it varies depending on the relative honor of attacker and defender. This is simply a specific application of those general rules. It works cause the game values DTs higher than any other unit, even though they are made primarily with the cheapest material - stone.

I dont know if anyone else can confirm my numbers, but you can independently figure it out since the mechanics of how honor drop works is fully understood. Forum articles have detailed the principles.

I figured this out independently last year. I suspect that a number of people have done so, and I kept the knowledge within my alliance. But it is now so well known that no harm in discussing it.

[Arcturuz]

practical fool - round counts probably dont affect how many DTs fire. The exact mechanics of how it works is not known, but my understanding is that wall defense only fire enough to kill what is there. If you want to test this, send an attack with 1 troop of several layers, and then send same number of troops in one layer. Do this over many trials because the number of DTs triggered varies somewhat anyway. I doubt you will see the average making a difference.

Heroes do not make any difference - defensive heroes do not contribute to wall defenses. Attacking heroes do not help ,except for a minor benefit from an intel hero that slightly increases longevity of warriors, thereby triggering more DTs per warrior (though I suspect the difference is very small).

[Fragsrus]

At the time that I tried it, the attacking account had Zero honor, and I had about 3mil honor..

[practicalfool]

zero won't work...

I'll have to give ur suggestion a try arct.. so far its been pretty random but I did see that the attacks where too many DTs regen'd it was giving crappy honour loss. there, that is what I think evony changed Not sure abt it, thats why I wasn't advertising, but I have a feeling a change was made recently. I've known this forever an kept a fair whack of DTs on my wall so the attacker helps me drop honour with their first few hits but recently an alliance mate ofund out abt DTs from someone else and asked me to explain it and I helped her experiment this stuff a little, she's not exactly the most patient (sigh) so my research is woefully incomplete lol.

[DeadlySinners]

The optimum drop zone is 25-50%, your attacker needs 750k-1.5mil honor for you to drop 500k+.

Always stay within this range if you need to drop a lot of honor quickly. Both on trebs and for scout bombs.

In actuality, the attacker should have as low honor as possible, without being at 0. For this method, the ratio of defending honor to attacking honor should exceed 10:1 (without the attacker having 0 honor). Since the losing side never gains any honor, the attackers honor will not change through repeated waves.
One thing to do if the attacker has zero honor is to send a scoutbomb with 1 scout at him ahead of time.