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Thread: On the place of the Nation-State in the 21st century.

  1. #11
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    I'm also opposed to global government, though I'd like to point out that any economic system is universal by definition.

    But... that being said, what should we do?
    "You might very well think that; I couldn't possibly comment." -Francis Urquhart

  2. #12
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    Gnerphk, Rod...


    I'm not really describing a problem to solve here. I am just making an observation and drawing something of a prediction from it. I was hoping more to see someone disagreeing with my vision of where we are headed and to state why.

    Also, I could have gone further and say geopolitical "blocks" are consolidating and will further consolidate in the manner outlined above, therefore accelerating friction and clashes between them, but that is probably going further than this place allows...

    Please bear in mind I never said World Governement is to happen anytime soon, simply the beginnings of it. Probably brought about by the strenghtening of supra-national institutions already in existance and perhaps even the creation of more.

    This is a very interesting time to be alive in this world.


    All I was looking for in this thread was arguments regarding the direction this world will take in this 21st century. That was really my only purpose.

  3. #13
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    I would participate in this discussion, but I have no clue what the Nation-State is. Is it the US? Or the Western Civilizations in common? Or something else?
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  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by LaoOmologo View Post
    I would participate in this discussion, but I have no clue what the Nation-State is. Is it the US? Or the Western Civilizations in common? Or something else?
    A nation is a group of people with similar language, religion, or culture in general.
    When this group becomes sovereign, meaning they declare independence and form a government all there own, they become a state, no?
    So, it is a Nation-state.
    Any independent country you see is a nation-state, America (questionable), Canada, Great Britain, France, Brazil, Russia, Mexico.. so on and so forth.
    Wildor is asking if we think the system we currently have, of so many separate governments working together minimally, will work in the near future.
    Last edited by SickbyDefinition; 02-02-2011 at 06:16 PM.

    The wheels of survival are greased more readily by easy lies than hard truths.


  5. #15
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    The nation state is the USA, or Egypt, or Australia or any other independent country you can name. Each nation state has it's own government. Some are democratic others are not. Each nation state sets it's own policies and makes it's own laws. Each nation state has it's own economy and most have their own monetary systems.

    So the end of the nation state basically means a world government (or corporation, as I have heard it called) that controls all finances, all trade, all law making and all of our lives. So who would run a world government? Well, they wouldn't be elected I suspect as that would require everyone in the world to vote and China or India would win every time, just by having the largest populations. So the western based banks and corporations would not like that much. Neither would western governments and royalty. I think you will find if you research New World Order that this concept is being driven by the west.

    Let's face it, the United Nations is a failure in terms of bringing stability to the world and the International Monetary Fund is responsible for more poverty in the world than any other single factor. (they lend money to governments and tell them how to run their economies) The other global organisations such as the World Health Authority, which seems incapable of actually improving the health of people in the world (look at the situation in Haiti) and the World Trade Organisation, which is incapable of improving the price that coffee growers receive for their product, all seem to fall short as far as running the world goes.

    The other thing is, all of these international experts were unable (or unwilling) to predict the Global Financial Crisis and yet they were the ones with all of the information available. So what happened there? Are these the models for a global government?

    Wildor, I don't know the solutions to the problems that we are facing now but I know I don't like the way a world government looks a lot like the ruling elite in George Orwell's book 1984. Besides, who can I call to get this pothole fixed in my street? Do I have to call Brussels or Beijing?
    Last edited by Rodri; 02-02-2011 at 06:54 PM.
    PEACE

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodri View Post
    The nation state is the USA, or Egypt, or Australia or any other independent country you can name. Each nation state has it's own government. Some are democratic others are not. Each nation state sets it's own policies and makes it's own laws. Each nation state has it's own economy and most have their own monetary systems.

    So the end of the nation state basically means a world government (or corporation, as I have heard it called) that controls all finances, all trade, all law making and all of our lives. So who would run a world government? Well, they wouldn't be elected I suspect as that would require everyone in the world to vote and China or India would win every time, just by having the largest populations. So the western based banks and corporations would not like that much. Neither would western governments and royalty. I think you will find if you research New World Order that this concept is being driven by the west.

    Let's face it, the United Nations is a failure in terms of bringing stability to the world and the International Monetary Fund is responsible for more poverty in the world than any other single factor. (they lend money to governments and tell them how to run their economies) The other global organisations such as the World Health Authority, which seems incapable of actually improving the health of people in the world (look at the situation in Haiti) and the World Trade Organisation, which is incapable of improving the price that coffee growers receive for their product, all seem to fall short as far as running the world goes.

    The other thing is, all of these international experts were unable (or unwilling) to predict the Global Financial Crisis and yet they were the ones with all of the information available. So what happened there? Are these the models for a global government?

    Wildor, I don't know the solutions to the problems that we are facing now but I know I don't like the way a world government looks a lot like the ruling elite in George Orwell's book 1984. Besides, who can I call to get this pothole fixed in my street? Do I have to call Brussels or Beijing?
    Okay, thanks. A Nation-State is basicly a free country in other words?

    Isn't our world already like in that book? The "Big Brother" is our own governments, survey cams are at every corner in a city and propaganda is "spammed" out through our beloved Fourth Estate. This is just one reason the world we live in is heading towards chaos.

    Besides, I already believe our world has this Top Elite. I can not explain why, because there are no facts to look on.

    (George Orwell's book 1984 was made upon Mr. Orwells view of the US and Soviet, and Soviet turned out to be very much of the same.)
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    Rodri who do you call now to fix the road? isnt it the local division of your nations government? i realize the point you are trying to make but i think you are over looking the small picture while (rightly) freaking out about the larger picture.
    if there were to be a global government i dont think peoples everyday lives would change all that much.
    and there in lies its defeat. that's a lot of effort for very little change.

    because the only way i can remotely see the world getting a global government is for one of the "global" organizations like the UN or the EU to get its members together and start a world domination campaign. and then we have WW3 where the members who feel outed because they know they wont be in charge cry hax on the members who go for it and start dominating the world and the countries who dont want in side with the cryers and the countries who do want in side with the haxors. and still the only way we would have global government is if the haxors win. and the interwebs teach us that the haxors may win for a little while but they have to keep on their toes if they want to stay a head. and in the end most of them lose anyway.


    the internet is the only thing remotely close to an international community, so it is the only place a global government could really take hold and show dominance. because for a government to function it has to have a people to govern.

  8. #18
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    At the moment, I would call the local council to get a pothole in my street fixed. It is made up of local people, elected by residents of this area and as such, is answerable to residents of this local area.

    I wish I could say that it won't happen but the evidence is already out there if you go looking for it. In fact, you may have already read or seen certain things that were a little strange but didn't really think too much about at the time. (I know I was like that for the last decade or so)

    Articles like this one "World needs $100 trillion more credit, says World Economic Forum" on the Telegraph website might have you wondering what they meant? Just remember that credit is borrowed money and has to be repayed. Where does this extra money come from? Who has to repay the debt? What terms and conditions are attached to this $100 trillion credit card?

    Money and food are the keys to global control.
    Everything else is peripheral but still part of a bigger picture.
    PEACE

  9. #19
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    money is illusionary. how do you know you have what you have? how do you know it is worth what you think it is? the value of money fluctuates.

    i honestly see a time when money will be worthless and we will return to a barter system. because it brings it back to a personal level. the person with the goods decides what their value is to them and will trad that good away for something they need, or know they can trade for something they need. but that is a large gambol.

    i prefer investing in assets then in cash. things that i know will be valuable to me for a while. things i can hang on to and trade a way if i need to. things not cash.

    food is always valuable, because you cant keep it forever. you cant horde up oranges and pass them down for generations. not without land to plant in. olives and dates are true investment trees i understand. as well as some of the nut trees.
    but i'm wandering from my point
    which was that food is a perishable commodity and cant be horded like gold or silver or wood or iron or cash. as such it will always have great value

  10. #20
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    Where on earth are you folks taking this???

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