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Thread: Why Historical Cities need to change

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blah99200 View Post
    Whats the fun in playing a game when there are so many checks in balances that it takes the fun out of it?


    This I whole heartedly agree with. Thank you very much for bringing it up. +rep
    Because if there are not constraints put on things then players will cheat. And playing with cheaters takes even more fun out of the game. We need a happy medium. You want to play a game with too many rules or no rules? With no rules? With lots of rules but no rule enforcement?

    I agree with Demon too. Players who choose to own capturable cities (HC's)and choose to play on capture servers should not be able to keep an empty city from being captured simply by comforting and speech texting. That is lame. It's like we killed everything they have. They have no army. But their city cannot be captured by a rival. Does not make much sense to me.

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  2. #152

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    Quote Originally Posted by japanpimp View Post
    If a player chooses to game on a server where their cities can be captured then simpy comforting an empty city should not work.
    Or if a player chooses to own a HC on colonize only servers then the same should apply. Basically, any capturable city should not be so easy to keep that all it takes is a comfort every 15 minutes. Problem is, players have invested lots and lots of money into their cities in Age I. So Evony wants to give players every chance to keep their cities. Thus the comforting. Then Evony came out with Age II. Great, can't capture cities, only HC's. Problem is, keeping an HC is just as easy as keeping an Age I city.
    I say Age I cities should be easy to keep. But Age II HC's should be a totally different game since the players can keep all their other cities. Since a player can keep all their other cities then HC's need to be extremely hard to defend.
    I think removing the ability to keep a city simply by comforting would go a long way to solving the current problem of HCs not changing hands. It also, obviously, would remove the massive incentive to share your login/pw/account with alliance mates so that they can log in and comfort around the clock.

    Either limiting the number of comforts/speech texts per day or adding a cooldown that is longer than the current loyalty drop would suffice. In both cases, you would be forced to actually defend the city from attacks for some period of time (how long can be debated). Again, a troopless city should not be able to go 24/7 without ever being at risk of loyalty hitting 0.

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    To DM: We'd have more enemies massing troops with the only troops lost, would be from farming. Those with 1M archers would have 3M, those with 3M would save to 5M+ (and not total, but per city/HC desired to save through CD). Evony claims that armies weren't intended to get to 1M archers, but if the only way to protect an HC is to have 10M archers, we'll see that happen.

    To JP: It amazes me how much you rant about losing a city when you yourself have not lost a city....ever. Would it be a reasonable request to ask you (until you lose a city) not talk or suggest changes to something you've never experienced?


    My suggestion for this (and it will probably get flamed, lol) but, get rid of the loyalty drop timer from 15-0. The 6 mins it takes per loyalty point, 1.5 hours of hitting/waiting which can be raised every hour (or much less) is an issue of HC(s) "changing hands."

    Would I personally want this? No, not at all, lol. However, the only real way to take HC(s) from alliances would be to kill all of their alliance's troops. And even if enemies want to play "shut gates" and "comfort every hour" meh, so be it. Eventually if you are persistent enough, that HC in question will be capped or NPCed. Capping one city from a player doesn't force them to quit the game, but if we have to kill an entire alliance's troops and leave them with nothing, then that option will result in many people quitting, thus killing the server even more.

  4. #154

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinigami Ichigo View Post
    To DM: We'd have more enemies massing troops with the only troops lost, would be from farming. Those with 1M archers would have 3M, those with 3M would save to 5M+ (and not total, but per city/HC desired to save through CD). Evony claims that armies weren't intended to get to 1M archers, but if the only way to protect an HC is to have 10M archers, we'll see that happen.

    .
    That is fine by me, but I disagree that people would amass those amounts. It would be impossible to feed for most HC owners who have multiple HCs. In addition, those aren't outrageous amounts of troops, once heal advantage kicks in and you bring a handful of attackers to the city. As it stands it takes 0 troops to defend the city, which allows people to have 8 HCs etc, leaving less for others. If the game were designed so that each HC had to be defended by actual troops/fighting vs. simply account sharing/comforting, people would be hardpressed to keep more than 2-3 HCs, imo.

    As for removing the 15 to 0 loyalty timer, I think that goes way too far, because you could instacap a persons HC like you can an NPC city, and their alliance mates would have no time at all to reinforce or react/respond. I think the delay is fine, assuming it exists to give the defender and/or his allies time to plan and respond and take measures to defend. After that initial stall/delay, they should be forced to defend with troops not comfort ad infinitum around the clock using multiple people on the same account.
    Last edited by DarkmaneZero; 03-04-2011 at 06:56 PM.

  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shinigami Ichigo View Post
    My suggestion for this (and it will probably get flamed, lol) but, get rid of the loyalty drop timer from 15-0. The 6 mins it takes per loyalty point, 1.5 hours of hitting/waiting which can be raised every hour (or much less) is an issue of HC(s) "changing hands."
    Yes, another poster brought up this point in another thread. If all troops in a city have been killed why can a player comfort and speech text a city that is basically empty because all the troops have been killed off? Why should a palyer be allowed to keep loaylty about zero on an "empty" city? Take that ability away and you will have taken away much incentive for account sharing.

    Thanks to Boleslav for the Afro Samurai Signature series.
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    After the 16s get capped and it's just down to getting people 14s, I think we'll be seeing a lot more "massed armies" simply because of the no refuge act in Age 2. But, also not suggesting to get rid of it since many people do tend to let their cities go.

    But you're right about the 2-3 HCs instead of 7-8 per player. I think every active player has access or the possibility to get at least 1 lvl 12. Many people play on multiple servers and then complain about not getting an HC? I don't think those players should really be considered when it is said that "everybody" should have an HC. Because after all, it's a time issue. Build up 1M archers and whatever other layers needed and take a 12. HCs don't need to be handed out just to be fair (not literally, but in that sense).

    So Far...
    (1) Timer change bad idea (maybe 5-0?) Gives 30 mins but still can comfort within that time. But at least comforting would have to be done 2-3 times more.

    (2) Comforting can be all day or week resolution from enemy capping and use of Free speech texts are a "bit too much"

    (3) I think that the general agreement is the use of comforting an empty city for days on end to prevent a cap by enemy is in need of revision. But, whatever revisions or changes added to mechanics, new ways will be sought out to neutralize any attempt on HC takedowns.

    (4) 6 hour sleep window concept....bad idea, brutally honest nobody would ever accept such a thing. Reminds me of dream truces, lol.

  7. #157
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    You know, Once you crack a computer owned city the loyalty drops like a stone because there are not enough troops to beat the loyalty waves. Why does that change once a player owns the city?

    Thanks to Boleslav for the Afro Samurai Signature series.
    I have made a few video guides that may help you.
    Please read the link below.
    My Evony Videos

  8. #158

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    Quote Originally Posted by japanpimp View Post
    You know, Once you crack a computer owned city the loyalty drops like a stone because there are not enough troops to beat the loyalty waves. Why does that change once a player owns the city?
    To make the game fun. If the instacap happened on player cities, folks would quit faster than ever, due to the inability of a valid player reaction, esp if done by adv port 1-2 miles in by a bunch of players..

    Interesting as I used to not like the 24 hour ADV Port time cap on Age I (You can't attack after an ADV port for 24 hours on Age I), but in Age 2 the instant attack after port + all this would be nutball.

    Most of this is caused as well by the no refuge mode. Most enemy HCs that I see on NA21 are 0 food and billions of troops. They just keep drafting and drafting and never farm, never need to farm and thus never lose troops hitting 10s for food etc.

    The other issue with speech texts is not how often they can be used but how easily you can mass 100s of them via facebook bonuses. In Age I where you do not have facebook bonuses and have to either buy them or have them appear on the wheel you see them used a whole lot less. Because they are RARE. Im fine with speech texts existing and working how they do, but I should not have multiple folks in my alliance able to mass 100s of them unless the wheel has been very kind to us. I've used a speech text about 5-10 times in Age 1 in about a year. I've lost cities, Ive captured cities, etc. I mentioned earlier I've got (and many members of my alliance) have war horns that expire in 2013. That means everyone has a war horn on all the time. Defeats the whole idea of the item. Speech texts are the same way.

    Age II is designed to let you hold onto things without as much work. JP makes a big point of making it accessible to the casual user... but then turns around and on this issue goes the other direction. Sorry, but its either one way or the other, either its accessible to the casual user for offense and defense, or its not accessible to the casual user.

    You also can't put so much infrastructure and regulation around the worst case scenario that you make the mainstream not worth playing. Evony is bad enough with all the undocumented cooldowns, (and I don't mean in the forums I mean in game, and THAT is a major game design flaw) that adding more just adds to the frustration of the folks trying to figure it out. I can't tell you how many friends of mine I've gotten to try out Age I and Age II that have walked away because "What do you mean I can't use XXX now? I bought it!" or "I can't do what after doing that? Why? Nothing here says I can't."

    (Since he won't read this since Im on perma-ignore and not a real person but some imaginary alt, I expect more of the same in this thread, but was fun getting the items outa my head into 'print')
    Last edited by Imrah; 03-03-2011 at 09:18 AM.

  9. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by Imrah View Post
    To make the game fun. If the instacap happened on player cities, folks would quit faster than ever, due to the inability of a valid player reaction, esp if done by adv port 1-2 miles in by a bunch of players..

    Interesting as I used to not like the 24 hour ADV Port time cap on Age I (You can't attack after an ADV port for 24 hours on Age I), but in Age 2 the instant attack after port + all this would be nutball.

    Most of this is caused as well by the no refuge mode. Most enemy HCs that I see on NA21 are 0 food and billions of troops. They just keep drafting and drafting and never farm, never need to farm and thus never lose troops hitting 10s for food etc.

    The other issue with speech texts is not how often they can be used but how easily you can mass 100s of them via facebook bonuses. In Age I where you do not have facebook bonuses and have to either buy them or have them appear on the wheel you see them used a whole lot less. Because they are RARE. Im fine with speech texts existing and working how they do, but I should not have multiple folks in my alliance able to mass 100s of them unless the wheel has been very kind to us. I've used a speech text about 5-10 times in Age 1 in about a year. I've lost cities, Ive captured cities, etc. I mentioned earlier I've got (and many members of my alliance) have war horns that expire in 2013. That means everyone has a war horn on all the time. Defeats the whole idea of the item. Speech texts are the same way.

    Age II is designed to let you hold onto things without as much work. JP makes a big point of making it accessible to the casual user... but then turns around and on this issue goes the other direction. Sorry, but its either one way or the other, either its accessible to the casual user for offense and defense, or its not accessible to the casual user.

    You also can't put so much infrastructure and regulation around the worst case scenario that you make the mainstream not worth playing. Evony is bad enough with all the undocumented cooldowns, (and I don't mean in the forums I mean in game, and THAT is a major game design flaw) that adding more just adds to the frustration of the folks trying to figure it out. I can't tell you how many friends of mine I've gotten to try out Age I and Age II that have walked away because "What do you mean I can't use XXX now? I bought it!" or "I can't do what after doing that? Why? Nothing here says I can't."

    (Since he won't read this since Im on perma-ignore and not a real person but some imaginary alt, I expect more of the same in this thread, but was fun getting the items outa my head into 'print')
    Dont think Im on anyones perma-ignore, so hope everyone can see this lol.
    NA24: CELTS - Retired
    NA33: INSOMNIA - Retired
    NA43: Relapse

  10. #160
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    You what to know what i think... Majority wins so you loose JP

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