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Thread: Why Historical Cities need to change

  1. #191
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    lets just say HC's cant comfort/spch txt and cant be abandoned.the only way to succesfully defend a HC is with troops, then all HC's can be capped when the attacker has killed the troops. is this good? is it fair? i think maybe it is. everyone will be in the same boat and if your HC gets taken you can just get more troops and take it back. people should have the right to defend thier HC via comforting i hear you say.....well yes but isn't what this is all about? too much comforting?? i think if it were imposible to abandon/npc a HC then there would not be the issue of...oh if i cant have it you cant... and basically demolish all buildings and fields with 1 click! if the city falls and you lose it, then you have an equel opportunity to regain it with all your buildings/fields intact.

    maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree here and i wont mind if i get told that i'm being stupid but the way i see it is this would most likely make HC battles PvP the biggest and best part of age2.

    Although if this was implemented (no chance lol) expect much much higher troop numbers inside HC's, then of course we will have people complaining that we cant take HC's because there are insane amounts of troops in them and that there needs to be troop caps. my point being is that for every acation there is a reaction. so for every game changing action evony make there will be a game changing reaction by all the players to try and maximise the potential of thier own game.

    YNWA

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  2. #192

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gamble View Post
    lets just say HC's cant comfort/spch txt and cant be abandoned.the only way to succesfully defend a HC is with troops, then all HC's can be capped when the attacker has killed the troops. is this good? is it fair? i think maybe it is. everyone will be in the same boat and if your HC gets taken you can just get more troops and take it back. people should have the right to defend thier HC via comforting i hear you say.....well yes but isn't what this is all about? too much comforting?? i think if it were imposible to abandon/npc a HC then there would not be the issue of...oh if i cant have it you cant... and basically demolish all buildings and fields with 1 click! if the city falls and you lose it, then you have an equel opportunity to regain it with all your buildings/fields intact.

    maybe i'm barking up the wrong tree here and i wont mind if i get told that i'm being stupid but the way i see it is this would most likely make HC battles PvP the biggest and best part of age2.

    Although if this was implemented (no chance lol) expect much much higher troop numbers inside HC's, then of course we will have people complaining that we cant take HC's because there are insane amounts of troops in them and that there needs to be troop caps. my point being is that for every acation there is a reaction. so for every game changing action evony make there will be a game changing reaction by all the players to try and maximise the potential of thier own game.
    Higher troop counts than Im seeing now? I'm when I see 5-8 million archers and 6-10 million warriors and no food. (Cause they can't refuge), well, lets just say I don't care to see HCs defended bigger than that.

  3. #193
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    5-8 million archers is quite normal in age2, your looking at that amount if you wanna solo a 16. anyway my argument is that IF anything does change the players will also change to addapt to the circumstances. tbh the disscusion will go on and i dont really mind either way what happens.

    take away auto heal maybe? but thats another story.....

    YNWA

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  4. #194

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    any good player can take a normal city from someone so you should be able to take a hc from soneone too.

  5. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by marty View Post
    any good player can take a normal city from someone so you should be able to take a hc from soneone too.
    Marty, looks like you didn't read the thread.
    Again, you cannot take a high level HC from a player. Why? Because players who own the high level HC's account share to keep them from being captured. Doesn't matter if you kill off every troop in the city. If someone is always online to comfort and speech text then loyalty will never go to 0. And this is the case with just about every high level HC. It ruins the game by making it impossible to battle over HC's.... which is the whoile point of Age 2.

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  6. #196

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    Quote Originally Posted by japanpimp View Post
    Marty, looks like you didn't read the thread.
    Again, you cannot take a high level HC from a player. Why? Because players who own the high level HC's account share to keep them from being captured. Doesn't matter if you kill off every troop in the city. If someone is always online to comfort and speech text then loyalty will never go to 0. And this is the case with just about every high level HC. It ruins the game by making it impossible to battle over HC's.... which is the whoile point of Age 2.
    This thread seems to have people agreeing on one thing, account sharing is very common across age II and Evony seems to be doing nothing to enforce their rule.

  7. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by ken76903 View Post
    This thread seems to have people agreeing on one thing, account sharing is very common across age II and Evony seems to be doing nothing to enforce their rule.
    Yeah, Evony is moving pretty dang slow to fix this problem. Age II has been out for a year. And it seems that every change Evony makes or every new feature they add to Age II benefits the account sharers somehow (like the 4 digit security code, WTF?). It's like account sharers run the company and make the decisions....

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  8. #198

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    Quote Originally Posted by japanpimp View Post
    I will provide real world examples in this thread.

    In Age II battles and wars are supposed to center around Historical Cities. Historical Cities are supposed to trade hands between rivals. The problem is, the way things are today Historical Cities can be defended just a easy as any other city.

    Why is this a problem? Well, in Age I and Age II servers Na20+ ANY city can be captured by an enemy. Players do not want to lose their cities, right? So Evony made it EASY to defend cities against attacks. Thus the battle mechanics heavily favor defense, not offense.

    This creates a problem when it comes to Historical Cities. Why? Because HC's are meant to change hands between rivals. HC's are not meant to be like all other normal player cities. Thus HC's should not be as easy to defend as all other normal cities. I am attaching a screen shot of a player who attacked one of my normal cities. I was attacked from a L14 HC. The attack wave was 175k archers plus layers in a single wave. The attackers Queen was about 650 attack. My defending hero was about 720 attack plus excal. Notice how easy it was for me to defend my NORMAL city against 175k archers plus layers.

    So, HC's never trade hands between rivals because they are just as easy to defend as normal cities. HC's, unlike normal cities, are MEANT to be fought over by rivals and change hands so that battles and wars can be won. How can a team take a state from an enemy if they can never wrestle the state capital from the enemy because it is way too easy to defend? This simply means that the first owner of a HC will be the last owner if they so desire. I know that Evony is working on solutions to help HC's trade hands more often. But I just wanted to show a real world example of how easy it is to defend a city.
    The HC is definitely one of the focal parts of battle in Age 2! You're correct that me, player 1 will have a very hard time capping your HC 16 alone. But the game is also built around alliances. If me and 5 of my buddies in my alliance all attack your HC 16 together, working as an alliance, we will take it from you. Unless you're being reinforced by your alliance. So we need to make sure your alliance can't help you because they need their troops to defend their own cities, meaning we have to attack your whole alliance.

    Me and my 5 friends may have a tough time attacking your whole alliance and your HC16, so we need to bring in our whole alliance in on the attack as well. So now we have my alliance vs. your alliance and the whole thing is focused on taking your HC16. Therefore, the way it is set up makes the HC and alliances together the focal point for battles, not just the HC.

    If this concept is too difficult, get a new alliance. Personally I think alliance war over HC's is what makes the game fun. I don't really enjoy 1v1, it's too easy. There are very few individual players on my server, that aren't in my alliance, who can stand toe to toe with me. I don't even enjoy taking on small alliances alone: it's boring.

    Your example shows what 1 single wave did. If you could take an HC from someone with a single wave of 175k troops then who would want an HC? If you could take an HC with 10 waves, do you really want to commit any troops to defending one? Geez, you get up to have dinner, come back 30 minutes later and your HC is gone. Wouldn't that make HC's less a center of battle?

    But all of that aside, the biggest problem is, you pose what you consider to be a problem, but offer no solution... What would you like to see happen to HC's to make them easier to conquer? How easy should it be to take one of the 16 state cities? It certainly isn't that easy to take one from an NPC, it takes careful planning, and a lot of resources. I don't like loyalty stalling at 15, but aside from that, I don't know how you could make it easier and still make it worth taking them. And I think the point in having the loyalty to stall is to give your alliance, or you, time to get reinforcements there. If someone actually attacked my HC's it would take time to get my troops there.
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  9. #199

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuck_b104 View Post
    The HC is definitely one of the focal parts of battle in Age 2! You're correct that me, player 1 will have a very hard time capping your HC 16 alone. But the game is also built around alliances. If me and 5 of my buddies in my alliance all attack your HC 16 together, working as an alliance, we will take it from you. Unless you're being reinforced by your alliance. So we need to make sure your alliance can't help you because they need their troops to defend their own cities, meaning we have to attack your whole alliance.

    Me and my 5 friends may have a tough time attacking your whole alliance and your HC16, so we need to bring in our whole alliance in on the attack as well. So now we have my alliance vs. your alliance and the whole thing is focused on taking your HC16. Therefore, the way it is set up makes the HC and alliances together the focal point for battles, not just the HC.

    If this concept is too difficult, get a new alliance. Personally I think alliance war over HC's is what makes the game fun. I don't really enjoy 1v1, it's too easy. There are very few individual players on my server, that aren't in my alliance, who can stand toe to toe with me. I don't even enjoy taking on small alliances alone: it's boring.

    Your example shows what 1 single wave did. If you could take an HC from someone with a single wave of 175k troops then who would want an HC? If you could take an HC with 10 waves, do you really want to commit any troops to defending one? Geez, you get up to have dinner, come back 30 minutes later and your HC is gone. Wouldn't that make HC's less a center of battle?

    But all of that aside, the biggest problem is, you pose what you consider to be a problem, but offer no solution... What would you like to see happen to HC's to make them easier to conquer? How easy should it be to take one of the 16 state cities? It certainly isn't that easy to take one from an NPC, it takes careful planning, and a lot of resources. I don't like loyalty stalling at 15, but aside from that, I don't know how you could make it easier and still make it worth taking them. And I think the point in having the loyalty to stall is to give your alliance, or you, time to get reinforcements there. If someone actually attacked my HC's it would take time to get my troops there.

    Well said.

    I agree up to the point where you state that an opponent with more troops will defeat one with less.

    The fact of the matter is you (or you and your alliance) can have 10 million ballista versus 1 archer, and if the guy with 1 archer has 5 guys sharing the account and access to speech texts, there's virtually no limit to how long he will last.


    As to how it should be easier--

    take out speech texts entirely


    I agree the stall is not fun, but the comfort/stall format makes it a challenge to take an HC from an owner. Speech texts are just an outright unneccessary advantage to the defender.

    And JP, please don't use your troops limit argument here-- evony will never limit your troops because it goes against the spirit of the game.
    Last edited by Heatseeker; 03-20-2011 at 08:29 PM.

  10. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heatseeker View Post
    Well said.

    I agree up to the point where you state that an opponent with more troops will defeat one with less.

    The fact of the matter is you (or you and your alliance) can have 10 million ballista versus 1 archer, and if the guy with 1 archer has 5 guys sharing the account and access to speech texts, there's virtually no limit to how long he will last.


    As to how it should be easier--

    take out speech texts entirely


    I agree the stall is not fun, but the comfort/stall format makes it a challenge to take an HC from an owner. Speech texts are just an outright unneccessary advantage to the defender.

    And JP, please don't use your troops limit argument here-- evony will never limit your troops because it goes against the spirit of the game.
    Thank you for enlightening the prior poster.
    But as for troop caps, they are indeed in the spirit of the game. EVERYING in Age II has caps. Hero levels, number of HC's, number of HH's, cities, buildings, research levels, everything EXCEPT for amount of troops and resources a player can store in their city. You see, that is a problem. It means that the unlimited features will be exploited. And that is exactly what happens.

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