The substance of space

[Rota]

Okay.. so dark matter is another substance that would be floating around within portions of my theoretical "substance of space." thanks for finding that info.

[Starr Spark]

Long post

Can't... comprehend... too... nerdy...

[Bree Fletcher]

I understand that there are trace amounts of molecules in space, I'm not talking about that. I'm thinking that there is a material that makes up the void. The idea I have is that there is NO free space anywhere. Underwater, we are swimming through water. On land we are swimming through air. In space we are swimming through _?_?_?_?_?_. This substance would be so small, that it literally fills in EVERY gap in existence. The space between water/air molecules is filled with this substance. Everywhere we think there is nothing, is this substance. When scientists suck the air out of a vacuum chamber, it is actually filled with this substance.

The trace amounts of hydrogen floating freely in space would be akin to water vapor floating in the air. The air has not become water, yet there is water in it.

Is this "something" actually dark matter? Or is dark matter another substance that you occasionally find floating around in the substance of space.



The following is a bunch of things I wrote in a discussion with KA in the bar long, long ago...
(substitute "dark matter" with "substance of space" as needed)

For the longest time I could not get how space/time bends with mass. I knew it was true, because very smart people I trusted said so. I just couldn't visually wrap my head around "why" it bends. Then I came up with the sponge analogy... (hear me out before laughing )

Don't think of space as a big "nothing," think of it as a sponge. Now take a ball bearing and place it in the middle of the sponge. What happens? The sponge conforms around the ball bearing, it bends around the mass of the object. BUT, right at the surface of the ball bearing the sponge becomes denser. Because, those fibers of the sponge want to go to their natural state of rest in the middle of the area the ball bearing occupies. The fibers of the sponge PUSH on anything with mass that takes up the space they want to occupy.
... gravity.
It's not the force of the earth pulling us down, but the force of space pushing us into the object with mass. Maybe dark matter is the fibers that make up the sponge. Ignore the fact that sponges have holes, there are substances with sponge-like properties that aren't full of holes like swiss cheese. Feel free to substitute that into the analogy if it's more comfortable.


Let's look at something as simple as water.
Go to the great depths of the ocean where there is a large amount of water pressure. Water "pushes" on everything around it and in it. Now let's put a light stone into this water. It's light enough that the currents kick it up off the sea floor and it bobs along merrily. Water is pushing on the rock with the same effects discussed with the sponge on the ball bearing.

Now let's have a grain of sand float by and bump into the rock. The pressure this deep is so great that the sand grain is literally pinned to the rock, never able to float away from it.

Now lets call the water, space. Call the rock, earth. And call the grain of sand, a nitrogen particle.
Now, over time more grains of sand get pinned to the rock. More gas particles get pinned to the earth. Eventually, there are enough particles of various gasses being pressed toward the earth, that an atmosphere is formed.


The analogies seem to work best with things that naturally want to be evenly dispersed.

The sponge fills the volume of it's natural dimensions. You can squeeze it, you can put in a ball bearing, you can flood it with soap. It is always trying to get back to that equilibrium of occupying it's natural, undisturbed dimensions. It wants to occupy its 1"x4"x8" and be left alone. But things keep happening and disturbing it. But, given the opportunity and the absence of disturbance, it settles back into it's equilibrium.


So if Dark Matter naturally wants to settle undisturbed by occupying "EVERYWHERE," then how can we utilize that?
If we could find some way to interact with dark matter, we could do some amazing things.
Let's say we find a way to repel dark matter. If you could put that repellent on the front of a spaceship, it would create a void that the dark matter wants to fill. The dark matter also wants to fill the space that the ship occupies. Since the dark matter can't fill the area at the front because of the repellent, then it may push the ship into that area, so it can fill the area where the back of the ship is.
Viola, dark matter propulsion.

It took us many millennia to learn how to manipulate the natural substance of our atmosphere (air) and become masters of flight. If we can learn how to manipulate the natural substance of space (dark matter?), then we'll become masters of... well I don't know.

Quite frankly, utilizing dark matter opens realms of possibilities beyond space flight. I don't know what would be the defining technology of dark matter.

In space it's still a matter of degrees. There's a large amount of "void" in atmosphere, or water. It's between the molecules that just happen to be a little closer than in space.

[Rota]

Can't... comprehend... too... nerdy...

Welcome to my world.

[Oro]

Ok so I will share what little I know about dark matter from TV shows and what not.
From what I have heard dark matter is something that takes up space in space, its invisible, untouchable, etc. Almost not even there.
The theory of dark matter was originally created to explain how galaxies stay together.
The gravity of a Super Massive Blackhole at the center of the galaxy is not enough to hold the entire galaxy together. So why don't solar systems and what not float out of galaxies instead of the neat spiral that is what really happens. The explanation given was dark matter, something that fills up the area around the galaxy holding it in place.
Do I believe it myself? Yes
I just don't think space can be such a waste of space.

[Transcend]

Ok so I will share what little I know about dark matter from TV shows and what not.
From what I have heard dark matter is something that takes up space in space, its invisible, untouchable, etc. Almost not even there.
The theory of dark matter was originally created to explain how galaxies stay together.
The gravity of a Super Massive Blackhole at the center of the galaxy is not enough to hold the entire galaxy together. So why don't solar systems and what not float out of galaxies instead of the neat spiral that is what really happens. The explanation given was dark matter, something that fills up the area around the galaxy holding it in place.
Do I believe it myself? Yes
I just don't think space can be such a waste of space.

I didn't read a lot of posts fully because they were just too long [for right now at least], but he's correct in saying that dark matter was proposed for accounting the missing 80% of mass in galaxies.

I saw dark energy somewhere else too,
Normal luminous matter makes up 4% of the universe,
Dark matter, 23%
and dark energy is the remaining 73%.

Dark energy is the reason why the universe is expanding. The repulsive effect of dark energy increases as the universe expands.

Taken from lecture notes, never trust wikipedia 100%, but I'd be lying if I said it doesn't help

[rasterbee]

Normal luminous matter makes up 4% of the universe,
Dark matter, 23%
and dark energy is the remaining 73%.

Wait, so are you saying that 0% of space is empty?

It's all either matter, dark matter, or dark energy?

edit: We all know not to trust Wikipedia 100%, don't be silly. None of the posts in this thread said anything close to "And this is straight from Wikipedia so it's gots to be true." I have no flippin' clue what the hell dark matter or dark energy is, so I turn to wikipedia to point me in the right direction. Then I quote wikipedia to egg Rota into posting more on this topic. And saying something to the effect of "and this is straight from lecture notes" is actually less reliable than wikipedia. What lecture? Intro to Programming 101? Comparative Russian Cross-Stitching 280? At least wikipedia has hotlinks citing their sources.

[Transcend]

Wait, so are you saying that 0% of space is empty?

It's all either matter, dark matter, or dark energy?

I think those percentages represent the density of the universe.

EDIT: Whoa no need to get testes, I didn't say you were a moron, or that you got all your knowledge from wikipedia. Just relax man, relax.

[rasterbee]

I think those percentages represent the density of the universe.

Ok, great.

So are you saying that 0% of the universe is empty? There is no where where there is nothing?

edit: Hi, my name is rasterbee. I can take the slightest mis-worded sentence and turn it around on you. I won't give you the benefit of the doubt and I won't take anything you say for granted. It's not me over-reacting, it's you making bad posts.

[Transcend]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Density

Just for you.