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Thread: Offense VS Defense (Then and Now)

  1. #1
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    Default Offense VS Defense (Then and Now)

    As it was when offense dominated Evony, single attacks could be used to wipe out an enemy. It can be said defenses didn't really exist since fortifications could be overcome with large armies of cannon fodder and/or range attacks which were, for the most part, untouchable.

    Now, defenses have been normalized is relationship to offeses and the cries are being heard across the land. I understnad and empathize with players who feel defenses are are too powerful now; however, I also realize Evony is not intended to be a conquerable game. Enemies will fall but Evony will coontinue on.

    I find the complaints inevitably reduce to "they didn't wanr us" or somehow offenses were screwed up because ballistae and archers would never get into range and keep marching until they were in range of defensive untis. Both of these arguments are failures in perception.

    Walls increase the range of defnsive fortifications, which makes complete sense. This knowledge ended the "marching into range" misperception. Likewise, the argument of "they didn't warn us" was quickly dispatched as being a mundane reduction in a failing argument.

    The prolem overall is players who oppose the normailzation of defenses wanted to continnue playing an offense-only game with is big red "EZ-mode" button. I'm sorry if you feel "your game" has been taken away from you - when, in fact, all you have lost is your gaming style. We all have to adapt to a new style.

    I suggested the idea of seige warfare as a counter-manuver as it is appropriate way to breakdown defenses. Should this be implemented, in some form or another, I'm certain the complaining will change from "defense are overpowered" to something like "now we have to commit troops for a long time and keep them supplied."

    In the end, I don't think there is anyway to appease those who only want to play in EZ-mode. I figure thos players will either adapt or move on to another game (perhaps Leuric or Surge of Valor - I haven't tried either yet, but they look pretty good.)

    For the rest of us who are able to adapt to the upgrades, we will continue on. We understand alliances matter and battles are not going to be won so easily - as they were never intended to be one-shot kills.
    Last edited by Kempion; 06-04-2009 at 02:05 PM.

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kempion View Post
    The prolem overall is players who oppose the normailzation of defenses wanted to continnue playing an offense-only game with is big red "EZ-mode" button.
    A big red "EZ-mode" button?! As opposed to what we have now, which is that if you have high enough walls and enough ATs that no one even considers attacking you? Knowing that nobody is going to attack you is the biggest EZ-mode button ever. Now I don't even need to log in if I don't want to except to get food. I know it's extremely unlikely anyone will bother attacking me because it's too costly for them.

  3. #3
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    I would like to see a balance to offense and defense. Right now it is skewed in favor of defense. I wouldn't mind it taking multiple waves of attackers to take a defending castle down (afterall it is a castle you're up against), however, it is full multiple waves taking down 1-2k archers at time. No reason to attack then.

    I do disagree with you saying Evony is meant to be an unconquerable game. And if the developers are putting this in for the reason of making it so players can't be beaten, then I think that is a terrible reason. I'd rather side with giving defenders more items to work with.

    I believe Evony is a game of conquer. While I don't want defenders and attackers to be the same. Each should have its advantages and disadvantes. I do want them to be equal. Like Risk. Attackers roll 3 dice to defenders 2 dice. Yet if an attacker gets the same number, the defender wins.

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" ~Einstein
    "lol well wine usually helps boost the wood"~LG
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."~Bill Hicks

  4. #4

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    I'm not yet sure how I feel about the changes that have been made over the last few day, but I would hardly say that battles were completely one-sided before. Players going on the attack still had to overcome the problem of attacking a player with 300k troops with the max of 125k troops you could send. The rally point limit definitely favors the defense, now, and before. It was hard enough to take someone's city when they had huge defenses, now I see it being virtually impossible.

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    Chino, I meant players may be conquered by the game will continue on. Why would alliances have 100 members if not to organize large assualts? Is it to have more chatters in the alliance channel? What one player coulddo alone before will now take a concerted effort by an allaince. Many alliances are already using this strategy successfully. It is only a matter of time until the best strategies and tactics amke their rounds and every player gets back into the fray.

    Quote Originally Posted by EvNoob View Post
    A big red "EZ-mode" button?! As opposed to what we have now, which is that if you have high enough walls and enough ATs that no one even considers attacking you? Knowing that nobody is going to attack you is the biggest EZ-mode button ever. Now I don't even need to log in if I don't want to except to get food. I know it's extremely unlikely anyone will bother attacking me because it's too costly for them.
    Get yourself into a better, well-organized alliance.

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    I just don't agree with it taking huge alliance efforts to take down one guy. It should be if it comes down to it, a single guy being able to take another single guy.

    Yesterday I had an alliance member defend with 7k archers against 4 waves of 20k archers. It was pretty ridiculous and he took them all down. Granted there probably are other factors involved (hero attack, tech lvl, etc.), but its just pretty unbalanced now.

    I'll admit I've always been a pretty aggressive player. I'm an "offense is the best defense" type player. But there are way too many advantages that the defender gets in this game.

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" ~Einstein
    "lol well wine usually helps boost the wood"~LG
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."~Bill Hicks

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    Quote Originally Posted by chinothepony View Post
    I just don't agree with it taking huge alliance efforts to take down one guy. It should be if it comes down to it, a single guy being able to take another single guy.

    Yesterday I had an alliance member defend with 7k archers against 4 waves of 20k archers. It was pretty ridiculous and he took them all down. Granted there probably are other factors involved (hero attack, tech lvl, etc.), but its just pretty unbalanced now.

    I'll admit I've always been a pretty aggressive player. I'm an "offense is the best defense" type player. But there are way too many advantages that the defender gets in this game.
    Well, it looks unbalanced from that angle. Were thre any other defenses?

  8. #8
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    Yea wish I could dig up the war reports. But the defender used the rainbow (1 of each troop) and the offender just brought archers alone. I believe the defender had some meatshields.

    Some of it I'd def attribute it to Evony no longer allowing one unit type to dominate all, which I do like.

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" ~Einstein
    "lol well wine usually helps boost the wood"~LG
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."~Bill Hicks

  9. #9
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    The rainbow needs to be dealt with too.

  10. #10
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    One thing I definitely agree with though. Is that fortifications were just bumps in the road before. Rockfall was definitely broken and logs well, I don't know. Logs were hit and miss.

    Now fortifications seem worthy and up to par. For that beefing of the defense, I 100% agree. I don't mind people putting in the resource and time work to set themselves up for incoming trouble.

    "Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind" ~Einstein
    "lol well wine usually helps boost the wood"~LG
    "Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves. Heres Tom with the Weather."~Bill Hicks

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