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Thread: The Decline of the Roman Military

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boleslav View Post
    I'd like to ask for this to be unpacked more. What is meant here?
    At present I cannot give a sufficent answer. But I am reserving this space, so that if one is not made available, I will provide one in two hours time.

    The heavy germanic influences can be spoken of in a 20,000 word essay and still not cover what is necessary to fill the entire length and bredth of the subsequent topics. So, in light of this, I will provide a very small summary of their influences. I suggest that, should you be interested in the topic, you pick up a book on Roman History (several actually), and use that as reference material.

    ~John
    Last edited by John Adams; 02-17-2011 at 11:18 AM.
    To train without ever surpassing ones' limits... Is that truly training?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boleslav View Post
    I'd like to ask for this to be unpacked more. What is meant here?
    To an untrained person in the field of history, it is of no use.

    This discussion was intended for individuals who possess a considerable amount of knowledge of Roman history and in particular the effects of the Germanic hordes upon the empire and on the Roman military. I am not willing to discuss the basics in detail at this particular point as I have mentioned the fall of the Occidental Roman Empire in previous posts.

  3. #13
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    I'm sorry you aren't prepared to answer a simple question that was politely worded. Let me try another question:

    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski View Post
    In addition, the Roman legionary soldiers became indolent as they grew accustomed to the pleasures of urban life.
    What is the evidence for this statement?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Boleslav View Post
    Let me try another question:

    What is the evidence for this statement?
    Charles-Louis de Secondat Montesquieu's Considerations on the Causes of the Greatness of the Romans and Their Decline.

    I cannot squander time on people who cannot comprehend basic material.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski View Post
    Charles-Louis de Secondat Montesquieu's Considerations on the Causes of the Greatness of the Romans and Their Decline.

    I cannot squander time on people who cannot comprehend basic material.
    you quote one source like its perfect and doesn't contain bias or prejudice

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski View Post
    Charles-Louis de Secondat Montesquieu's Considerations on the Causes of the Greatness of the Romans and Their Decline.
    That was written in the 1700s, no? Is that a reliable source?

    Refresh my memory - what was the last part of the Roman Empire to be conquered?

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    Well, Charles-Louis de Secondat Montesquieu was certainly biased regarding the Byzantine Empire which he referred to as an Imperium Graecorum or Empire of the Greeks. Montesquieu also harbored the typical Enlightenment disgust [Shared with Charles Lebeau, Edward Gibbon and Voltaire] with the Byzantines which he referred to as being an avaricious, decadent, corrupt, bigoted and superstitious people.

    Montesquieu derived his knowledge of the growing disunity, weakness and lethargy of the Roman forces from the classical Roman authors. One has only to read the work of the Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus to see a detailed account of the decay of the Roman military particularly after the disastrous battle of Hadrianopolis which occurred in 378 CE.

  8. #18
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    So Conrad, here's my real question about the idea that urban life caused the soldiers to become weak and insipid. If that is a valid proposition, how do you explain that the city of Constantinople was one of the last parts of the Empire to be conquered?

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    The Oriental provinces of the Roman Empire outlasted the Occidental provinces of the Roman Empire due to the excellent strategic position of the Nova Roma or the metropolis of Constantinople which was defended with the massive Theodosian Walls, the greater amount of trade occurring in the eastern provinces of the Roman Empire [While trade decreased in the West with the Vandal capture of Carthage in 439 CE, trade in the Aegean Sea between the provinces in mainland Greece and the provinces in Anatolia was well maintained until the wars with the Muslims in the succeeding centuries], and possession of the economic center of the Roman Empire - the province of Aegyptus.

    With complete naval mastery in the Aegean Sea and control of the Dardanelles, Constantinople became impregnable while any attempt to cross the Hellespont would have been halted by the full strength of the Roman forces stationed in Anatolia. Simply put, the Oriental provinces of the Roman Empire were highly urbanized and affluent compared to the less urbanized West.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conrad_Jalowski View Post
    Simply put, the Oriental provinces of the Roman Empire were highly urbanized and affluent compared to the less urbanized West.
    Wouldn't wealthier cities have more opportunities for "decadence" to tempt the soldiery?

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