Moon Base

[Gnerphk]

Hm.

Well, I'll accept that you believe time to be a wheel; for myself, I see it as linear within the reach of my vision. As such, I'm compelled to act therewith; my direction is to prevent what I see to be an otherwise unavoidable tragedy, to wit: the extinction of humanity.

I'm dismissing the rest of what you said as specious, but only for the moment. In another thread, I'd like to discuss "good" vs. "bad" with you, both in general and applied to species. Incidentally, I'm also in favor of the idea of cleaning up this planet, but that's tangential (in my opinion).

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In retrospect, that's far too negative. I do appreciate your response, Rodri, and I mean neither offense nor personal judgment when I reject what you say.

[Gamble]

...I found it speciesist...

So: was my post just too long to read? I'm trying to improve my forum communications; it's tough without meaningful negative feedback. And no, please don't post red on me.

i have found your comments and insights to be the kind that add to this disscusion i was trying to generate, thankyou.

[Rodri]

that is a fantasy si-fi movie, how can you compare, your just being silly!!!

I think more people would have seen Chuck Heston in Planet of the Apes than have heard Gill Scott Heron perform this beat poetry and if the message is a bit strong, bad luck. Suck it up and own it whiteman. The funny thing is, I am as white as any whitey (except that albinio "Whitey" in that Jim Carey movie) and I don't find it offensive or racist at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRG6ahCs_t0

It took me a while to read between the lines of Planet of the Apes but the subtext of racism is there when you look at it in a specific way. Or at least, I think it is. I could be wrong but I could be right.

Sorry for the off-topic stuff but it's not really off-topic if you see what I am getting at.

[Balaam]

i hope they don't give up on the idea of a shuttle because of the international space station
maybe Virgin Galactic will be taking over where the shuttle leaves off



it really was about time for the shuttle to be retired, it was designed in the 70's

the constellation program really isn't very well publicised yet but i think NASA is going to keep you happy gamble

[Gamble]

I think more people would have seen Chuck Heston in Planet of the Apes than have heard Gill Scott Heron perform this beat poetry and if the message is a bit strong, bad luck. Suck it up and own it whiteman. The funny thing is, I am as white as any whitey (except that albinio "Whitey" in that Jim Carey movie) and I don't find it offensive or racist at all.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRG6ahCs_t0

It took me a while to read between the lines of Planet of the Apes but the subtext of racism is there when you look at it in a specific way. Or at least, I think it is. I could be wrong but I could be right.

Sorry for the off-topic stuff but it's not really off-topic if you see what I am getting at.

the fact that you applied that song to this disscusion makes it racist. trying to dillute down the error by saying you found planet of the apes racist has no bearing. then you say "suck it up and own it whiteman"......

[Rodri]

The whole discussion is based on establishing bases on the Moon or Mars at great expense for some future when the world is such a mess that getting off it seems like a good idea. It may not be racist thinking but it is elitist thinking, in as much as most of the world's population would be left behind to suffer whatever fate befalls them so that a small number can survive with some dream of settling among the stars.

The very action of building habitable bases on the Moon or Mars would remove so much in the way of resources from dealing with the problems here on Earth, that we all face, that it would actually contribute to poverty and suffering right here. So who would be saved? The rich and famous? The best minds? The best physical specimens? Who-ever it is, they would be few compared to the many that are left behind, unless you have a way of moving the entire global population?

Anyway, it's pretty obvious that the developed nations would be the ones to participate in the program and therefore they would be the ones that would decide who gets to go. As this is a big money project beyond the reach of any single government to carry out, private capital might sway the allocation of the seating a little? Would a billion dollars buy me a seat? Ten billion? Whatever. I could see a lot of national treasuries being cleaned out in order to buy a seat or two for the glorious leader and his chosen concubine which would leave the general population with even less resources available to them after the ships are gone.

These sort of doomsday scenarios with an elite few saved by leaving the planet have been around for years but as far as I'm concerned nobody gets out of here alive unless everyone gets out together. Either that or we all stay here and deal with the issues we face because there is no escape clause, there is no ticket out. NASA was just a part of the military industrial complex that the USA has used to keep it's economy growing since the second world war, at great expense to the rest of the world. Man on the Moon? Big deal.

[Rota]

A moon base is inevitable on a far enough timeline. The simple fact is that there is ore on the moon, and we will eventually have a base for mining it for resources, if nothing else. As for spacefarring, I think the moon is not the best place. I would prefer a space station to act as a "dry dock" for building and maintaining a space fleet. I don't see us terraforming the moon, but certainly we can build an enclosed base there.

[Gamble]

the disscusion is based on getting things moving and not standing still. its not about doomsday senarios like the picture you are trying to paint.

"man on the moon? big deal." well yes it was and still is.

your arguments are from the stoneage. if we go on your principles why should we have economies? if we all cant have the same amount of money bill gates has nobody should have it. if we all cant have a bugatti veyron nobody should have one? should we stop exploring the deepest depths of the ocean just because only a select few people can get the chance to go there? lots of people cant afford air travel, does this mean we should no longer use aircraft as a means of travel?

[LordMac123]

1. I think international projects would be great. I'm not sure if space travel will ever be truly successful until we can stop thinking as "Country A vs. Country B" and start thinking as "humankind as a whole".
Totally agreed, Alu.
2. Moon bases aren't really suitable as permanent habitable zones. Rodri is right that the moon cannot, at least with our current knowledge and theories, be terraformed, namely due to its gravity being too weak if I remember correctly. Biospheres might be possible, but broad horizon terraforming is likely out of the question, unless perhaps we made the moon one huge biosphere (which is unlikely).
Uh,yea I will go with that.
However, moonbases could be useful for research and experimental means, generally in space-faring and trans-planetary habitations areas, I think.

As for Mars terraforming, in theory it's considered maybe possible, though in practicality, especially with our current limitations, it's not. I do believe Mars is speculated to have once had oceans and possibly even primitive forms of life, but I think it's also speculated that its atmosphere evolved in the wrong direction to continue to sustain such things. Either way, it's probably hard to say what Mars really has going for it until we could perform more extensive tests. I believe the problem has to do with radiation.

Though I do feel we really should re-evaluate the way we handle planetary ecosystems before going off to other worlds. As much as some people might want to downplay the destruction of rainforests, pollution of oceans with massive islands of plastic waste, damaging of the atmosphere, extinction of certain animal species, and so forth, these sort of behaviours are going to be counter-productive if we want to try to create or sustain new planetary settlements.

great post Alu. Spot on. After all, the reason NASA began was over the USSR launching Sputnik 1 and embarrassing the checkout of the other advanced countries like us. For us to get over that would be a truly difficult change.

[Rodri]

I wrote a big long reply and wiped it because it's pointless. Just get off my planet as soon as possible, you are surplus to requirements. Just don't expect me to chip in for the fare.