On Nuclear Power

[King Alboin]

^Oh goodie I git to follow the a****** who does those annoying b.o.t.t.z. from mother ruska


K .. You guys have come up with some very interesting facts and ideas. I would suggest not leaving it to the other guys to figure this out, but instead try to get grants to proceed with these ideas of ya'lls, for it is assured you will be the one's who will benefit or be harmed by all that transpires in the energy producing fields.

Whatever the choice of energy production you choose, remember there are always pros and cons to every choice. The idea that because it seems green means safe and suited for the continued health of the environment is just a colorful picture of daiseys painted on a canvas made of corruption and disillusionment.

The truth of the matter is, there is always a byproduct to energy production.

Take wind generators; good clean energy right? uh huh wrong. Those big ol propellers are made of spun fiberglass. The chemical to bind those fibers together is an epoxy resin polyurethane ... very toxic

Also the degree of maintaining them is astronomical. tankers full of 80wt oil just to keep all the parts moving, means more fossil fuels have to be refined and other cons

Take tide generators; the rolling wave energy can be transferred into mecanichal energy, transferred into electrical energy, clean right? perhaps, however, one would have to saturate coastlines with so many of them, just to keep up with demand and then of course the same thing as with the wind generators, the production of the material used to build them would of course add to the increased toxicity to the environment just because of what they are made of. Not to mention again the cost of maintenance to provide a fleet of service tuggs to daily inspect, repair, rebuild, etc

Course it seems you guys have already seen the pitfalls to solar, so no need to expound on the cons there.

Take hydrogen; now this is an interesting fuel source .. plentiful .. can be produced somewhat inexpensively, however depending on what and how you use it is where the cons come in. Hydrogen cell engines are cool, yet they require the metal platinum in the transition of the energy. Platinum aint plentiful, though it can be made synthetically by "NUCLEAR" processes, and therein lies the rubb. Again, just the production of the materials used on "clean green" energy can be and are toxic to the environment.

Okay lets go into Bio fuels ... no wait, before we do that let me ask you, does it make sense to make food into fuel? and what about the massive amount of lye that must be produced as a catylyst to replace the paraffin with the alcholol? again blah production blah of blah materials blah hazardous blah to blah envir.... blah blah blah

The best idea ya'll have mentioned so far which is most doable is geothermal. Very clean, very efficient, and the only persons who are affected really are those who lie in hell, so no problem there, they dont mind. EXPENSIVE at first yet one can reduce their electric bill by 80% per year in most cases.

The BIG Geothermal Energy Production plants have only one flaw I can see, and that is is that they must be built where the crust of the earth is [relatively] thin, and have plenty of fresh non-saline water.

Then of course you have the old ways of Nuclear, Coal, Dams/Resevoirs, and Oil.

No matter what you use, there will always be a consequence to what is used. How you develope your technologies will determine how well you protect the environment you live in. I know of course that there will be a butt load of work to accomplish this symbiotic relationship to energy production, especially in the changes need to the infrastructure already inplace. Not an easy task no doubt.

I would suggest ya'll take a little of all of the available technologies and weave them into a cohesive grid, re-use the by-products and not just throw them away, cept for radioactive waste, and in that case everyone is just gonna have to accept that its got to go into someone's backyard somewhere. Decide where that will be and just do it.

For if you all intend on insisting on using what energy production provides, then you need to accept the consequences of ya'll's insistance and deal with the whole process and see it to the end. Aint no one else gonna do it for you.

The only other option is to change the whole world's way of thinking and go back to caveman days, and just scavage for food and pooh over a cliff.

[Rodri]

The Solar Thermal Tower
This is not my idea, it's just a concept that was proposed for this area, which is sunny most of the year round. The concept is that you need to build a high tower, around 1km or 1/2 mile was proposed, and build a collection area of solar thermal mass around the base of the tower. The concept for here was to build glass houses, or a large single glasshouse which could be used for growing food. The heat that builds up in the thermal mass at ground level is channeled into the base of the tower, which is more like a chimney and that hot air would pass up through the tower, spinning turbines as it goes, to be expelled at the top. The idea is that the thermal mass is so efficient at collecting heat and storing it that there would be no reduction in power production at night, giving the elusive dependable base load power that is lacking in most sustainable energy projects. The difference in the air temperature at 1km high and ground level is the major driving force to this energy production method.

I had some concerns about the ill effects of pumping hot air into the atmosphere like that but really, it's just part of a natural process of heat exchange that goes on every day and night all over the planet. Other than that, there are all the construction costs and maintenance issues, as there are with any large power generators.

In all honesty, I prefer the stand-alone power systems that are basically hybrid solar/wind/biogas and hydro (if you're lucky) with a huge emphasis on energy efficient house and building design, including incorporating things like geo-thermal piping to help regulate house temperatures, proper building alignment to maximise passive solar efficiency and other methods of reducing the energy requirements for new buildings. This doesn't give the base-load power that is required by industry and commerce but it does help reduce the amount of base-load that is required overall.


Geothermal heating/cooling systems can help regulate household temperatures.

There are two areas that still need heaps of work at this stage, those being generators and energy storage systems. With all the coal and oil in the world to burn, not much real work has been done here and there is much room for improvement I think. A generator produces electricity by spinning high-powered magnets in a copper wire coil. Usually, those magnets are made of steel and can be extremely heavy, so if we can reduce the weight of those magnets without reducing their efficiency, we can reduce the drag on moving parts and increase the energy efficiency of any generator. I know there has been some work done with ceramic magnets but I don't know very much about it. (sorry)

Energy storage systems are still very basic at this stage. If we can find a cheaper and cleaner way to store energy for later use, most households could become energy self-sufficient in no time. I know there are some modern batteries around that are far superior to the old lead-acid types but they tend to contain highly toxic materials and have a limited lifespan. We really need a clean and long-lasting storage system, like yesterday.

Solar Energy from Saline Ponds.
This concept was first developed in Israel and has been adapted and is in use at the Pyramid Hill salt works in Australia as well as at remote townships such as Alice Springs and Birdsville. The pond requires a large surface area and a large supply of very saline water but a reasonably sized plant can produce up to 150kw of electricity in the right conditions.



This picture of the Solar pond at Pyramid Hill (near Kerang in Northern Victoria) shows the mesh of pipes running down the wall of the pond. These run across the bottom of the pond and up the other side. Fresh water (or radiator coolant) is circulated through them, and is heated by the saline pond water. This hot fluid is then used to heat glass houses, boil refrigerant in a rankine engine to make electricity, or (in the case of Pyramid Hill) used to heat air to flash dry gourmet salt products.

See-Through Solar Film for Windows
This is fairly new technology that I heard about a while ago but it has great potential, especially in the urban enviroment, where whole office towers could become energy producers and maybe even net energy exporters rather than energy consumers. The beauty of this spray-on film is that it can be easily retro-fitted to any existing building and is reasonably cheap and low energy to manufacture. It may not be base-load power but once again, we really need to work on energy storage/release systems for the future.

Look, none of these are perfect in any way and each has specific requirements to work efficiently but these are a few methods of larger-scale energy production that I am aware of. I tend to focus on what will work where I am, so these are suited to my environment but may not be suited to yours. Sorry but you will probably find that if you look hard enough you will find other methods that suit your own specific environment.

I would like to add that a lot of these technologies are still in their infancy and will still need more work to get the maximum energy efficiency required. We will also need to look at our own and societies energy consumption and especially patterns of use that create this need for such a high level of base-load energy that is really only needed for short periods at specific times of day. Can we adapt what we do so as to reduce these periods of peak power usage? I think we can.

Of course King Albion is right. There is always a cost involved and many green technologies hide those costs in the manufacturing process, the materials used and the ongoing maintenance costs. Those low-energy fluorescent bulbs for example are very energy efficient in use but require more energy in production and contain materials like mercury which make them an environmental hazard when broken.

Nuclear power is no different. The plants are expensive to build, expensive to maintain and only have a limited lifespan of around 30 - 40 years before a costly and hazardous shut-down proceedure can be implemented. Then there are the spent fuel rods, which are still "hot" and require careful storage and handling. The nuclear industry was first developed to provide the US (and British and Soviet, etc. etc. etc.) with a source of weapons-grade plutonium and the industry as a whole has relied on government subsidy to continue to operate. If we stop building nuclear weapons then the impetus for government subsidy might run out anyway. I am not saying there is no place for nuclear power. It just isn't very practical in real terms yet. We need better technology there as well.

There was some mention of a different type of nuclear generator that uses a different fuel than uranium. These are thorium generators I think, which are considered the greener nuclear alternative and can even be used to safely dispose of spent uranium fuel rods (plutonium). It looks good but is still in the experimental stage. Still, you never know. Whatever happens, we really need to adjust the way we do things currently. We live in a consumer society and although that is good for business and good for developing new technologies (most of them toys) it is bad for the planet and the human population as a whole. I think we really need to look at the way we manufacture products that are designed to fail or become obsolete in a short space of time and address that. We are squandering our future for what? To make money? All the money in the world won't be worth a grain of salt if the planet gets screwed in the process. Rich and poor, we will all die together.

[Asmo]

nice post rodri!

[Gnerphk]

Yeah; apparently, I have to spread Rep around more before giving it to Rodri again.

One addendum: The nuclear reactor type known as an Integral Fast Breeder uses electroplating to consume fuel in highly efficient fashion; the process yields minimal waste, since virtually all of the produced materials are converted back into fuel for the reactor.

[Eutopeus]

I do Theorise, turning lakes into producers. A deep pond/lake, with a clear layer of fresh water suspended in the depths and a saline layer on the surface breeding algaes,preferably bluegreen in color. This may store energy in the form of heat energy assisted by solar collection. I may be wrong on this.

Energy can be pruduced in many ways by convection, stated in rodri's post about wind towers. I agree with comment on change to atmosphere though.

I'll say that" nothing is free"
Energy incuded!. then Ms. nature takes over! Maybe we can defeat universal law and physics! Remember,Balance!

[Moghedien]

Nuclear power got owned by this


by the way does anyone know where to get the full source code for the stuxnet worm?

[LordMac123]

Wow. I had no idea 20.3 percent was nuclear to be honest.

Nuclear power got owned by this


by the way does anyone know where to get the full source code for the stuxnet worm?

why do you need full stuxnet worm code? You must want to blow up a pipeline or cut off supplies, huh?

[Moghedien]

i want to compile it and research it on a comp not connected to any network
When im done i will do a gutman (35 passes) hard disk wipe and flush the firm ware