History Class

[*jdm*]

I had an argument similar to this with one of my teachers once...

We always debated, it was just what we did. Every opportunity, I started a debate. I still do It was just to try and ease the boredom of school (though not because of the reasons that most would think. It was simply because everyone else learned SO slowly (from my perspective)). Anyway, that's irrelevant, just a bit of background.

He said that EVERYTHING was biased. It was impossible to write an unbiased account. I disagreed, saying that it is perfectly possible. He said that it was physically impossible, because anything we wrote would be tainted with our thoughts, and therefore bias.

A few minutes after class I realised another way I could prove him wrong, but that's irrelevant.

The point is, he was right, to an extent. While writing 2+2=4 is a completely unbiased record of it, when writing an essay, or a book, or anything which wasn't simply right or wrong, it's impossible to be unbiased. Your thoughts will always get onto that page and swing it one way or another.

History is the same principal. While we would (well, I would) consider it a very scary thought indeed to be living under Nazi rule, if we WERE under Nazi rule, we would consider it terrifying to be anything else.

The final thing I'll say is that that is the way perspective works. It changes so easily, and sometimes the thought of it being so easily changed is frightening, but it does happen. That's why (getting slightly off-topic) you always have to fight (not necessarily physically, in fact, almost certainly not) for what you believe. Others will try to change your mind, but you have to remember and hold onto the reason you thought what you thought in the first place.

i prolly would of read this if the text wasn't in bright blue

[Cysero]

i prolly would of read this if the text wasn't in bright blue

Wow that was a really constructive statement... You should write a book.

Anyways to get back on topic i really don't believe that history is much different from the eye's of different countries. Of course a war would look different through the eye's of different people i mean for example the way american citizens experienced the vietnam war was very different from the way a vietnam citizen experienced the war. Lets say nazi germany did win world war 2. In the end the course of the war would have been viewed the same either way. You could say the allies would have been viewed as the evil side but even if the allies did loose the people will still know the truth about the horrors that went on in germany and the truth wont die out. It might be contained through force but you can't make millions of people forget what happened. In a sense your teacher is right because the truth will eventually die out and the history that was written by the victor will still live on. Who know's we could be living a lie.

Winston Churchill ~ "History is written by the victors."

[Nesterus]

i prolly would of read this if the text made any sense and wasnt full of pretentious self serving statements.

amen brother thats all i can say.

Hehe doesnt know wat he is talking about.

[BS.]

He said that EVERYTHING was biased. It was impossible to write an unbiased account. I disagreed, saying that it is perfectly possible. He said that it was physically impossible, because anything we wrote would be tainted with our thoughts, and therefore bias.

A few minutes after class I realised another way I could prove him wrong, but that's irrelevant.

The point is, he was right, to an extent. While writing 2+2=4 is a completely unbiased record of it, when writing an essay, or a book, or anything which wasn't simply right or wrong, it's impossible to be unbiased. Your thoughts will always get onto that page and swing it one way or another.

make up your mind

Quote the whole thing next time, he obviously is making a progressive argument for bias. Don't take one line out of his evolving story to make it fit into you idea that he didn't have a point to make.

As a matter a fact i'll lay it out here for you.

-I didn't believe my teachers idea that nothing can be written without bias.

-However, we went through a discussion. I don't need to write down the details because i will give the conclusion next, this will save needless space that would be taken up.

-After that discussion, this is the paraphrase part, i realized that he was in fact right and my way of thinking changed.

Very simple he made his point in a way that allows him to express not only his opinion but also how reached that opinion in the first place.

[*jdm*]

Quote the whole thing next time, he obviously is making a progressive argument for bias. Don't take one line out of his evolving story to make it fit into you idea that he didn't have a point to make.

thats what we do here

[Rota]

Quote the whole thing next time... Don't take one line out

Out of context FTW!!

[Mephistopheles.]

i believe the perspective is based on what caused the war and why did each sides get involved in it. everything is biased cuz of our views of what is ethical and what is unethical.

lots of ppl think what nazi did was very unethical but im sure in their view it was ethical to do it. war are caused by either one of the two, greed or survival.

[BS.]

Alright well i'll make one more point on this thread since no one really seems to care about the original points

It can be summed up in a very simple way.

"Hey Ron, what'd you do yesterday?"

"Nothing much just went to work came home then saw a movie with the wife."

"What movie?"

"That new one about Evony."

"Oh yeah i heard about that what happened?"

Nothing much some big alliance was picking on all the little ones so they banded together and finally took them out."

An outside observer can be swayed toward any particular cause by what they see. Maybe that big alliance had to move from a previous server because they were terribly beaten and then found their niche here. It's all up in the air, one can never know the whole truth secondhand.

Which leaves nothing but stories given first hand. Since all first hand stories will reflect the emotions of the giver from that time nothing can be taken for granted.

This is not to say that facts are not attainable but rather that the reasons as to why things happen can never be exposed in the surest sense. When you see the United States deciding to go to war with Japan and Germany it at first seems that it's because of Pearl Harbor. But wait what about the rising fear of communism that Americans we're starting to show? Wait what about the fact that the government was already showing far more support to the allies than the axis. But wait, but wait, but wait. There are an infinite amount of, "What about this," reasons and absolutely no right one.

As the overwhelming majority on this thread has decided history is subjective. One must wade through the murk to find semblances of the truth.

[Nesterus]

we have already decided the answer


you are just prolonging the inevitable

[Boleslav]

Great thread idea Goats. As I mentioned to you in skype, I once wrote something similar to your Chemistry teacher's argument on the forums: http://bbs.evony.com/showpost.php?p=531141&postcount=52

But here's my question. Is it a problem that countries teach "their versions" of history?